Help me pick a climbing jacket

My dream jacket would keep me warm(I run cold) on multi-pitch climbs in 45-65F weather.  I am hoping to wear fewer layers for climbing comfort/performance.  Ideally, one jacket that I can wear over OR echo light shirt on warmer days, and over merino wool or NF futurefleece LT on colder days.

My main goal is to have one jacket that I can leave on all day through the stop/go activity of climbing. 

I just got a Mountain Equipment Kinesis Jacket but haven’t tested it in the field yet.  I only have 6 days to return it.

I am considering Patagonia Nano-air light, Arcteryx proton FL, Mountain Equipment Kinesis, OR Uberlayer, or any other items you guys suggest :)

What do you typically wear in those temperature range? Need a reference point since 65F i would still be in my sunshirt and won't be wearing my Kensis until its shady 50s and windy. But if you do run cold I would look at the nano air or something with 60g of insulation 

I think it would improve the quality of replies if you gave a bit more info. Right now, you'll get suggestions, but they may not be very specific to what you need. There are a lot of variables other than temperature, and most of those variables change throughout the day. What layers do you own already? What did you wear last fall?

If it's 45 F outside, I'm probably going to have 5 upper body layers if I go to the crag.

If it's 65 F, I might spend the day in a sun hoody.

Wearing one jacket for all conditions is just not feasible. Looks like you climb in the Gunks, so I'm guessing the multipitch stuff is on the shorter side, ie not carrying a backpack? If so, I understand the desire for simplicity. However, your layers need to be decided in the moment, and adjusted as conditions change, not decided at your keyboard.

Here is a list of what I would want in my closet, if I climbed mostly in NY:

sun hoodies and wool t shirts for base

wind shell- houdini or similar

lightweight fleece- nothing heavier than an R1, better if thinner

light softshell- Ferossi or Alpine Start

light puffy- Nanopuff, Nano Air, etc ~60 gsm primaloft

heavy puffy- 100 gsm insulation, whatever is on sale

I wouldn't use/carry all that together, but if I wanted to climb down to 45 F, I'd want it all in my closet.

Couple of thoughts: 

-I think your goal isn't really obtainable. Wearing the same exact layers for a 30-60min belay in the shade on a 45deg F day and then transitioning to moderate or hard climbing without any changes just doesn't seem reasonable. 

-People vary greatly in what they can wear to be warm/comfortable/survive/happy. Shivering out a belay on the side of the cliff is sometimes possible but makes the next pitch you climb or your day less fun. Its hard to climb when you can't feel your toes and hands. 

-I would avoid Merino wool as a "warm" base layer. Sure it can be warm, but it weighs more than synthetic, takes longer to dry, is more expensive and less durable. A synthetic T shirt (or merino as a T) with a R1 weight or Polartec Powerstretch works way better for both resting and high output. 

-The newer style "active insulation" will work better for avoiding donning/doffing your layers than older style synthetic (Coreloft, Primaloft, etc), but those older styles still work fine because most of the time you're better off just shedding an insulation/belay layer. 

-Insulation layers you're going to climb in get shredded, so you're better off adding a few ounces of weight for more durable face fabric. Also, figure out what works for you with less expensive options (i.e. OR rather than Arc'teryx) to test your system and figure out what works for you. 

-My personal go to kit for technical rock climbing is Merino T shirt, beater hooded sun shirt, thin buff, Hooded power stretch fleece, and either a wind shirt in warmer temps or a 60-80 g/m2 synthetic puff layer for mildly colder temps but still above 50deg (most often a Montbell Thermawrap Hooded Parka, but any similar brand/model like this will work about the same). Often a team can just take one puff layer for the belayer and share it, the follower can have a small pack  they can put it in to climb when following if not wearing it to second. 

-Some of the fancier new breathable fabrics/insulations IMO make more sense for mountaineering and alpine climbing objectives than multi pitch rock climbing. If you run cold you are better off with a bigger less breathable puff for belays. Belay gloves and a buff/hat also really increase warmth and comfort. 

-In the exact same weather, I've climbed a long route in the breezy shade wearing two puffs the whole time (Atom LT and old Micropuff) and still been cold, yet on a non-windy sunny face just worn a long sleeve T shirt. Same day, same "weather," completely different needs. My partner was very jealous of the double puffs and belay gloves on the first route. 

-At the end of the day, what brand/model jacket and layers don't really matter. The basics of your system are more important. 

But if you do you want something similar to the proton fl or Kinesis for 1/2 the price there is a sale on the marmot version!

https://www.marmot.com/men/jackets-and-vests/insulated-and-down/mens-alt-hb-hoody/AFS_195115061265.html

Thanks for everyone's thoughtful answers and questions!

Ben Ha wrote:

What do you typically wear in those temperature range? Need a reference point since 65F i would still be in my sunshirt and won't be wearing my Kensis until its shady 50s and windy. But if you do run cold I would look at the nano air or something with 60g of insulation 

At 65F I am fine with NF futurefleec(similar to 100wt fleece) + Houdini clipped to harness incase it is shady and windy.  

I took a short easy walk today in overcast/windy conditions in the low 50s with jeans/T-shirt and Kenesis and was a little cold.  This makes me think I would definitely need another or warmer layer if I was belaying in the shade/wind in the 50s.

My recommendation is to think about keeping your neck, ears, and head warm. I love having a light insulation scullcap and a neck warmer (buff or light weight fleece). With those, I can adjust my comfort without taking less fussing with torso layers.

Also consider the utility of warm/hot beverages. If you're belaying at the ground then having something warm to drink might keep you warm enough to not need that belay jacket just yet

J C wrote:

I think it would improve the quality of replies if you gave a bit more info. Right now, you'll get suggestions, but they may not be very specific to what you need. There are a lot of variables other than temperature, and most of those variables change throughout the day. What layers do you own already? What did you wear last fall?

If it's 45 F outside, I'm probably going to have 5 upper body layers if I go to the crag.

If it's 65 F, I might spend the day in a sun hoody.

Wearing one jacket for all conditions is just not feasible. Looks like you climb in the Gunks, so I'm guessing the multipitch stuff is on the shorter side, ie not carrying a backpack? If so, I understand the desire for simplicity. However, your layers need to be decided in the moment, and adjusted as conditions change, not decided at your keyboard.

Here is a list of what I would want in my closet, if I climbed mostly in NY:

sun hoodies and wool t shirts for base

wind shell- houdini or similar

lightweight fleece- nothing heavier than an R1, better if thinner

light softshell- Ferossi or Alpine Start

light puffy- Nanopuff, Nano Air, etc ~60 gsm primaloft

heavy puffy- 100 gsm insulation, whatever is on sale

I wouldn't use/carry all that together, but if I wanted to climb down to 45 F, I'd want it all in my closet.

I have a very old 250 wool long-sleeve shirt, Houdini, NF future fleece LT(close to 100 weight fleece), Ferossi jacket, ME Kinesis Jacket(might return), and several sun hoodies. 

I am climbing in the gunks/dacks for the rest of this month and then I head back home to Vegas. So I would like a jacket that could work for shorter and longer multi-pitch days.  

Feels like your combo might be futurefleece lt + 60g active insulation (nano-air, proton lt, any active insulation) + Houdini.

NF futurefleece LT is closer to a heavyweight thermal then 100wt from what I read. So you can get the cult following R1 if the combo above isn't warm enough

On colder days here in the winter (under 35ish Fahrenheit), I climb with the TNF FutureFleece. It’s an older version (2020 I think) but basically the same as what they’re selling today. Warm even if it’s a bit windy, and allows plenty of movement for climbing. I’ll add a puffy for when I’m belaying. For warmer days or spots that have full sun, I’ll belay in the fleece and just wear a tshirt for the climbing.

Personally I think If you have a fleece, sun hoody and a soft shell you are good for 90% of climbing days. If you also have a puffy, 100%.

You just need the right combo for the right weather, which you will get with experience.