What's your favorite FAST technical scrambling/approach shoe, 2022 edition?

I'm searching for what is, to me, the Holy Grail: a shoe that is basically a hybrid trail runner with enough front-end support, stickyness, and reinforcement to pull off climbing up to ~5.9, while still being light and nimble enough to allow comfortable running/fast hiking over technical terrain. I loved the old LS Exum Guides for this but they, like all good things, were discontinued. I've seen past threads on this topic, but nothing that recent other than some discussion on the Sportiva TX series. I've tried the TX Guides in both original and leather and found the originals to be agile and sticky, but just too dang narrow in the forefoot, while the latter was a tad too chunky and heavy. I've used the LS Raptors and Wildcats extensively, both of which are fairly sticky, but I don't like the footbed camber and their fabrics wear out quickly. I've also tried Salewa Wildfire Edges but the toeboxes were way too narrrow, even more so than the TX Guides. Scarpa doesn't appear to make a sticky trail runner at the moment, but maybe I'm missing something. What are you using for fast and light scramblers?? 

TX Guides, but I agree on narrowness.  I moved up 1/2 size which is a little long/sloppy at the toe, but doesn't seem to impair the climbing that much once they broke in a bit.  Certainly makes them more comfortable for a long hike or after my feet have been crammed in rock shoes.  In the "right" sized guides, my feet are unhappy after a few hours or after rock shoes.  Good luck with your search - I'll be watching the comments.

I think FAST will depend on the foot (and what's attached to it) that is in the shoe, rather then the shoe itself.  But I have to think that the LS leather TX would stretch enough to work.

I know that they lean more towards trail runner than approach, and that although they have sticky rubber, it’s not necessarily climbing shoe sticky, but Scarpa does make this shoe, which is marketed as just the hybrid you’re asking for.

Patagonia Rover RIP

I may resole a new pair of Cyklons for running/scrambling missions, but it's not something I would climb 5.9 with, as they wouldn't edge for much of anything. This is an expensive option and R&R is 6 weeks out. 

I'm still hoping to grab a pair of TX Guide Leathers, as the 45's fit pretty well for me (same for me as a TX3), but they edge pretty alright for not a climbing shoe. 

For LS Trailrunners like the Mutant, I'll go ahead and apply SeamGrip to the entire upper above the footbed. A few thinner layers is probably better than a messy thicc layer. Really helps with wear + tear when scrambling and going off trail and endless ridge routes. 

This Holy Grail has been sought after by many, I'm not sure if it's real or fantasy tho. 

Inov8 trail runners have this graphene coating that is super burly and reasonably sticky. I really love mine for approaches. I definitely don’t climb 5.9 in them. 

Not sure how much of a runner they are, but for climbing and approaches I love my new UP Rock Guides. They have less cushioning than the TX Guide Leathers I've been using, but the UPs climb and edge significantly better. Very sticky rubber and they are much more comfortable in width than the TX Guides, which eventually stretched somewhat width wise, but not really enough.

I would definitely try on some Rock Guides, and if they fit, buy a pair. Sage and Summit in Bishop has them.

https://www.unparallelsports.com/product/rock-guide/

Eric Engberg wrote:

I think FAST will depend on the foot (and what's attached to it) that is in the shoe, rather then the shoe itself.  But I have to think that the LS leather TX would stretch enough to work.

By that I meant *allows* one to go fast. If you've run much in dedicated approach shoes, you'll be familiar with how clunky, stiff, and generally sucky they are for running--especially off-trail. Approach shoes literally slow you down. The TX leather may break in enough to be decent for running, but they feel pretty stiff and clunky out of the box. 

Terry E wrote:

I love my new UP Rock Guides

Big UP supporter here, just watch the sizing on the Rock Guide.  Runs large/huge.  I ordered in same size as UP Lace rock shoe (also same size as street and LaSpo TX Guide).  They were very large to the point I wasn't sure 1/2 size smaller would be enough.  Due to their high shipping cost and lack of stock, I just returned them.  I don't think they are quite as "running shoe" shaped as TXGuide and the Scarpa mentioned above.  Maybe a little flatter like guide tennie.

Arcteryx Norvan SL or (if you need more protection/chunkier terrain) Scarpa Spin 2.0. Both have Megagrip and are lightweight so they won't weigh you down when you need to switch to rock shoes.

I used a pair of Scarpa Rapids for all of my running/scrambling days in the Wasatch, Tetons, and Winds this year. They lean more toward trail runner than approach shoe, but I felt comfortable in them up to about 5.8 (depending on style).

This post could not have come at a better time. I am very partial to LS shoes, and like how the TX guides look, but they initially seemed to have some issues with durability, based on reviews on LS's site. Can anyone comment on the new colorway/ new pairs in the last year or so on durability?

Chris Johnson wrote:

This post could not have come at a better time. I am very partial to LS shoes, and like how the TX guides look, but they initially seemed to have some issues with durability, based on reviews on LS's site. Can anyone comment on the new colorway/ new pairs in the last year or so on durability?

I have the new red/gray as well as older black/yellow TX Guides.  Haven't had issues with either other than laces (of course).  Not about durability, but they feel so solid and supportive compared to anything else I've used.  Pulling them on makes you feel well equipped and ready.  I love my TX3 for casual wear and moderate crag work.  If I feel I might need to climb hard (for approach shoes), or I'm going to hike quite a bit, I wear the Guides.

I took my leather tx guides pretty much straight out of the box and did a heinous 8 hour approach in the alps with them. They did admirably. Personally though I don't think they climb as well as my old hyper mids by la sportiva but undoubtedly a more cushioned ride. 

Jay Anderson wrote:

I have the new red/gray as well as older black/yellow TX Guides.  Haven't had issues with either other than laces (of course).  Not about durability, but they feel so solid and supportive compared to anything else I've used.  Pulling them on makes you feel well equipped and ready.  I love my TX3 for casual wear and moderate crag work.  If I feel I might need to climb hard (for approach shoes), or I'm going to hike quite a bit, I wear the Guides.

Good to know. I'm imagining the Guides will really only be for scrambling/ traverses and I'll replace my Cruxes with some Boulder X's for actual approaches. 

Andy, currently I am mostly using the La Sportiva TX2 for these types of activities.  My opinion is that the TX2 is way better than the TX Guide both for running and climbing.  The TX2 excels at uphill running because it is superlight, minimalist, and soft.  It rock climbs extremely well, especially if you size down slightly - I sized down a euro half size. For climbing I prefer a softer more sensitive shoe like the TX2 over a stiff shoe like the TX Guide.  Downhill running is not great because the lugs are not that deep, especially once they start wearing down which happens fast.  I tend to slide out and fall more often with this shoe on fast, loose descents than I would with a proper trail runner.  Plus the cushioning is way less than you get with a trail runner so I feel a bit beat up after a long (1,000m+) fast descent.

I bought a pair of TX2 Evos this summer but have not used them for any speed missions yet.  At the crag they seem to climb as well as the TX2, maybe even a touch better?  The outsole is a slightly different version of Megagrip, called Idrogrip.  I haven't found much info yet on how Idrogrip compares to Megagrip but testing them out at the crag the rubber feels similar to regular Megagrip.  The lugs seems slightly deeper so maybe they will descend loose trails better, but I don't know yet.  Sizing is different, I went half a size up from the TX2 and they are the same length or maybe even a touch shorter.  The sock thing around the cuff seems like a good idea to keep debris out.

For running shoes, the La Sportiva Kaptiva uses the same white frixion rubber as the Mutants.  I find the Kaptivas are an extremely good shoe for very technical trail running.  They are lighter than the mutants and feel more like a running shoe.  They climb very well for a running shoe, not as good as the TX2 though.  I use them extensively for fourth class scrambling and up to 5.2 - 3ish?  For instance I used them this summer on the Uto-Eagle-Avalanche traverse in Rogers Pass and they seemed like the perfect shoe for this traverse which involves a 5km approach, a very long 3rd and 4th class ridge traverse with some low fifth class sections, and then a 5km trail descent.

the below suggestion is slightly off topic, but it may affect the fit for those wishing the tx guides would fit better in the toe box.

i take out the inserts. this may sound counter to the whole idea of an approach shoe, but it's allowed me to eek out the most sensitivity and a bit more room i need when scrambling into the 4 class and higher. for long approaches i'll sometimes leave the inserts in. but once at camp, i take em out before launching. 

some conditioning to the feet may be required. 

hope this helps,

jcs

I'm a really big fan of the Arc'teryx Konseal FL 2. The rubber is sticky, and they're really lightweight for how supportive they are... I think they're like 10oz per shoe. I had a pair of the original Konseal FL and they were also great. I got a pair of TX Guides and they were good to climb in for brief periods, but the narrow toe box just destroyed my toes. I recently picked up a pair of the Konseal FL 2 and they just fit my feet way better than the Sportivas, and really similar to the previous Konseal. Caveat - I don't climb very hard or move all that fast, but I want something that's light for the miles but still inspires confidence when scrambling with some exposure. I find that the Konseals are pretty much ideal for what I want.

jackscoldsweat wrote:

i take out the inserts. 

Reminds me that I have belt sanded the underside of the toe area of inserts (ski boots) to reduce volume up there without losing the arch support, etc.  I think I will try that in my smaller pair of TXGuides.  Thanks!

I dream of a modified hoka speedgoat. Vibram megagrip with that full squish under your heel/midfoot but a slightly thinner/stiffer sole under the forefoot and rubber toe cap/climbing zone