New Ice Screw Carrier

I wanted to put this on peoples radars as the fall temps begin to descend in the mountains. A friend of mine in conjunction with Kitty Calhoun has developed and produced a more adaptable ice screw holder. With the ability to put multiple on each gear loop, allowing for better organization of screws. It also leaves your standard fixed clippers for just your tools. I believe that this could fill in a niche that is in-between standard tool clippers and ones such as the DMM Vault that clip around the harness.  I have a pre-production model and the construction is quite robust and the design is well thought out.  He is offering a presale discount of 20% at https://karrykrab.com/ 

These are just screenshots I snagged from the website. I can post some actual photos of mine in a few days.

Don’t your screws hang a bit low using this system?

Why the chalk bag in the pic?   

Both great and legitimate questions.  

During the development of the product we took into consideration on how far down the screws would hang when clipped. We found that yes they hang slightly lower than on a standard clipper. This is due to the gear loop drooping. Although the slight lower position, it did not affect the ability to move or get in the way of other items on the rack, because of its position.  We actually found it to be more comfortable to remove the screw from the Karry Krab because of its forward position. And the ability to organize and remove screws in a manner that makes sense for individuals, without looking. So it does hang slightly lower, but in our testing not enough to affect climbing or removal. Thanks for asking!

The chalk bag is my doing. I hesitated on adding it to the website because the product is used in ice season of course. The image is in reference to our PreSale on the website and the majority of it appears to be accidentally cutoff on the post here. I used the chalk bag as a reference to a tagline on the presale. Visiting the website might help to clarify. I suppose I could have used a rope bag or something in my reference, and did think about that. I opted for a smaller bag that helped to highlight the Karry Krab, while maintaining a climbing item in the image. Reading your question I’m now second guessing it! Being a startup in the product sales area, I’m still learning about all this marketing and imagery. My expertise is design engineering.  Marketing is Way down the list of things I have experience in. I do appreciate very much the question though!

Cheers!

I’ll add a little feedback/ask a few questions based on what I’m seeing. I’m used to ice screw clippers mounted on the harness, with the harness providing a solid “back wall” thus making using one hand to remove a screw possible. Your ice screw clippers, attached to the gear loop, seem like they would make one-handed screw removal difficult as they are “floppy.”

It also looks to me like the gates on your clippers extend too far down toward the bottom of the actual clipper. This will not allow multiple screws to be racked on a single clipper while still facilitating easy removal of a single screw. Additionally, mounted as you have them, the top part of the clipper is slanting downward, making it difficult to keep a screw on the top part of the clipper (the horn) while selecting for the correct size screw. This is even shown on the middle clipper in your pic, with the gate clearly getting in the way of the screw hanger, even with just two screws on the clipper and under ideal at-home conditions.

On just an aesthetic note, in the pic you have the screws facing forward. This is never done while ice climbing, for obvious reasons. 

Hi ClimbingOn!

Thanks for the questions!

It is true that the current clippers are more stable when attached to the harness.  And with the gear loop being flexible, the Karry Krab can move a bit and easily be lifted. This is certainly a shift in how one may be used to a specific feeling, and may not be for everyone.  During my discussions with Kitty early on, it didn’t seem like this was a hard stop on continuing on with the design.  The differences between the two systems were obvious, and the somewhat more flexibility of movement in the Karry Krab was one of them.  Although we did also find that with adding screws on the Karry Krab, that this movement actually helped with removing them, because of gravity. The weight of the screws allowed the Karry Krab to pull away from the body and hang in a more natural way, because of the flexibility.  As opposed to the more rigidly mounted clippers on the market today. It certainly may take a learning curve for more experienced climbers who have been doing it one way for years.  I’ve got a few professional climbers who have gratuitously offered to mess around with the production models and offer their feedback.

For the gate shape and location and the use with multiple screws… I can humbly tell you that I prototyped at least a dozen different versions, and worked with our local ice climbers here in the Minneapoils area, and landed on the form factor you see today.  We haven’t cornered the market on the shape of clippers, not even close.  But for the criteria which we were trying to achieve, it checked most of the boxes.  Some of those were… easily carry three ice screws, and be able to easily remove them from the clipper, including the second or even third screw down on the clipper.  The bottom shape and the top flat staging area are all open for adjustment trying to meet this during the development phase.  The initial feedback we are getting is that it works as we believed It would. But it’s so new!  And being in the product development business, I am fully aware that everyone will experience things differently. I would invite you to try it out and welcome more feedback!

The image does show them racked facing forward. This was again my call.  I did this because the image was not fitting in the shot the way I wanted it to, so I opted for the effect of fitting things in the image.  I can see how this might actually teach someone the “wrong” way to rack.  Thank you pointing this out, and I’ll be talking with the team here to discuss changing the image.

This is exactly the kind of stuff that I’m looking for!

Thanks for your feedback.

Cheers!

Timothy Bottger

FAQ #5 - y'all coming out with an equivalent device so I'll have somewhere to rack my slings and draws now? (Sorry, but this thread needed a little snark)

Just to reassure those concerned about screw holders on gear loops. I’ve been putting my ice clippers on my gear loops for years now,(I tape them securely in place). I find it superior to mounting on the harness belt because it is easier to see and reach the screws when wearing bulky clothes. I have not had any issues with screws hanging too low. As far as being “floppy”, I think that is probably an advantage at times, and have never felt it to be a hinderance when pushing the screw against the gate. Give it a try, you might like it. FYI, I have no connection to karrykrab and this is the first I’ve seen them. The elastomer attachment to the gear loop looks like an improvement over my jury-rigged connection. 

I'm curious if you would be willing to talk about why not going for a fully load rated design. I use the grivel clippers specifically because I kinda don't want anything that looks like a carabiner on my harness that couldn't stand up to being one if I'm being dumb and hypoxic and gripped. I especially wouldn't put something on a gear loop that looks like a biner that isn't rated, elastomer or no.

I typically rack 6 or 7 screws per clipper.. 3 is what I have when  soloing.. I  use the grivels and  like that they are full strength  but  screws do  unclip too  easily.  I  lost  3 last season...

Hi Spopepro O.!  

Thanks for the question. Because the product was only meant to hold screws and maybe other gear, we didn’t feel it necessary to develop a fully rated carabiner, and stuck with a basic “clipper” concept that is similar to most of the clippers on the market today, with a twist. I am familiar with the Grivel and its ability to be used as a fully rated carabiner. We however believe the use factor of the Karry Krab justifies its rating to be closer to those standard clippers.  The inclusion of the stainless steel internal substrate is intended to protect the carabiner from breakage in cold weather, which was something that we were informed of during our consumer study, that happens more so than people would like. We did have it pull tested using the UIAA procedure and it did have an average breakage value of 3.7kN’s.  The study was small, so we’re not claiming that it’s definitive. I did want to have it tested just so I knew what it was. It did pull at what I expected based on the FEA studies I did during the design phase. So although it’s not PPE, but it’s quite robust for a screw racking clipper.  Our intellectual property does cover the potential for us to develop a fully rated carabiner, and it’s completely within the realm of possibility for a future rendition.  And one climber who has a couple pre-production units stated that they would use it to hold extra alpine draws on their harness. We never considered that at all, but if someone desires the ability to have an extra carabiner or two on their harness to compensate for those dicey situations, it would be easy to clip one or two draws to the Karry Krab and use it that way, if it works for your climbing style. Maybe not though. Climbing is a very individual sport, in terms of how things get racked and removed. We’re hoping the Karry Krab can help folks make it even more personal. And the elastomeric keeper does really restrict the Karry Krab from being accidentally used during a situation like that, as it would be very difficult to pull off and use on accident.

Thanks again for the question!  I appreciate that very much!

Timothy Bottger

Nick G.!

I’d be interested in hearing how the Grivel unclipped in your case and how you lost screws. I have heard this being a problem for clippers that break and the screws fall into the abyss, but not ones that unclip.

If you want to reach out to me directly you can email me at info@karrykrab.com.

Cheers!

Timothy Bottger

My biggest question for you is: what happened to naming these the "thinly sliced?"

Timothy Bottger wrote:

But for the criteria which we were trying to achieve, it checked most of the boxes.  Some of those were… easily carry three ice screws, and be able to easily remove them from the clipper, including the second or even third screw down on the clipper.

I think you might find that for the majority of uses, a capacity of 3 screws makes this item a non-starter.  I rarely rack that few screw into one clipper; generally I'm looking to get 4-6 screws into a clipper, and more is better within reason.  I would never buy a clipper that only holds 3 screws, or where the gate is going to hit the screw sitting in the bottom of it.

There is a reason that all of the commercially available clippers have a deep basket and a gate that ends well above where the screws sit in the bottom of the device:

I ordered some of these a month or two ago, and they showed up today.

Have not used them yet, but I think they will work well with my Blue Ice harness.  The harness has a very lightweight mesh waistband which isn't as conducive to on-the-waist mounting of a screw carrier.  Hanging these off of the gear loops seems like a good solution.  

The biggest barriers to my purchase of these would be the price, and the fact that I have something that already works well. I've been hanging BD clippers off my gear loops without a rubber retention device for quite a while now and haven't had any complaints. I use the BD clippers for screws and then have two caritool evos for my tools. No complaints.

A single Karry Krab is $18.00

A fully rated Grivel Carrybiner is $17.00

A BD Ice Clipper is $12.00

A Petzl Caritool Evo is $15.00

Kai Larson wrote:

I ordered some of these a month or two ago, and they showed up today.

Have not used them yet, but I think they will work well with my Blue Ice harness.  The harness has a very lightweight mesh waistband which isn't as conducive to on-the-waist mounting of a screw carrier.  Hanging these off of the gear loops seems like a good solution.  

What harnes did you get? I use both the Addax and Choucas. They are both lightweight and have clipper slots that work pretty good.

Sam Klinger wrote:

What harnes did you get? I use both the Addax and Choucas. They are both lightweight and have clipper slots that work pretty good.

Choucas Pro.

The clipper slots are ok, but the clipper I've been using (Grivel Carryabiner) uses a plastic fixer that tends to bunch up and compress the waistbelt.  

My Choucas Pro works great with petzl ice screw clippers