Van vs Truck & trailer Family Edition

We had two mini vans when our kids were little and loved them. Of course, we were sleeping in tents. My buddy has a Sienna 4 wheel drive that he lifted 3 inches. Works for them and their baby.

Many popular climbing camp spots only have room for two cars (Joshua Tree, Yosemite, etc). With a trailer in the second spot, your climbing partner can't camp with you. As a parent, you know how important a third partner is. One parent is always baby sitting while your third climbs with the other parent. It's a good system.

My 2020 Tundra Double Cab has a large back seat...we call it the 'spare bedroom'. With an 8 foot bed and a simple plumbers canopy, it's a sweet traveling vehicle. And it's likely to outlast any of the vans. No trailer needed.

Mark Pilate wrote:

Haha, Okay, only legit for a 44’ sailboat.  Here’s the  real F-150…more like Jason’s 

haha!  I knew that looked a little too roomy for the truck topper set-up!

Vans are awesome  but they do swing and shake on the 4x4 roads... 06 sprinter. even has a pooper and a sink.

Dawg won't sleep on floor though... 

PS. have my street creds from sleeping in the dirt... @ 60 I have earned some luxury... 

I heard of these things called tents once, apparently you can get a real nice one for under a thousand, less if you are sponsored or know someone . 

M M wrote:

I heard of these things called tents once, apparently you can get a real nice one for under a thousand, less if you are sponsored or know someone . 

It has been amusing to watch the van life syndrome take over the climbing community. We raised two kids, and continued to camp and climb in our mountaineering tents until we retired in 2021. At 65, I figured it was ok to give into a little luxury and sleep in the back of my Tundra. It's basically a metal tent. We still live and cook outside on the tail gate.

But hey, it's a free country, each to his own. It is odd to see people "camping" in those greyhound bus sized RV's. I mean, where do you draw the line between luxury and excess?

John Clark wrote:

Wife and I are expecting and want to retain some of the freedom our van affords, but we are unsure that the van is the right solution.

Anyone out there have thoughts on adding a seat to a van vs selling the van and getting a small travel trailer for weekend and once a year week-long climbing trip once the kid comes along?

Right now we just have a car my wife commutes in and I daily the van for commuting and also use it for weekend trips. I personally would like to get something else to commute in that could also tow a small trailer. We generally climb on the Sierra East Side, but do go to Yosemite (Valley and TM) and Tahoe crags somewhat frequently, which means a trailer could be cumbersome at times.

I live in a van, and I have lived in a van with a girlfriend who also had a sedan. I think the ability to leave the van and drive places in something that is not a van, is pretty big. It's not feasible for me as a single guy, but I think with a couple, a truck/trailer is probably preferable to a van.

Mark Webster wrote:

It has been amusing to watch the van life syndrome take over the climbing community. We raised two kids, and continued to camp and climb in our mountaineering tents until we retired in 2021. At 65, I figured it was ok to give into a little luxury and sleep in the back of my Tundra. It's basically a metal tent. We still live and cook outside on the tail gate.

But hey, it's a free country, each to his own. It is odd to see people "camping" in those greyhound bus sized RV's. I mean, where do you draw the line between luxury and excess?

This makes a lot of sense Mark, but a good bit of my desire to upgrade the van/truck/camper...is for the other campers.  It's a lot more soundproof at 2:00am than 1mm of nylon......

Nice  having a hard  shell around you in creepy places.  Wall mart,  truck  stops , bear  country etc. Let's not forget how much fun or how impossible it is to set up a tent in a real  storm . We were in a westy in the Daks once  for a nasty storm that  flooded the campground.  All the tenters ended up in  their Honda  civics with all their  soaked  nylon.  We felt  guilty and slept in..

Mark Webster wrote:

It has been amusing to watch the van life syndrome take over the climbing community. We raised two kids, and continued to camp and climb in our mountaineering tents until we retired in 2021. At 65, I figured it was ok to give into a little luxury and sleep in the back of my Tundra. It's basically a metal tent. We still live and cook outside on the tail gate.

But hey, it's a free country, each to his own. It is odd to see people "camping" in those greyhound bus sized RV's. I mean, where do you draw the line between luxury and excess?

Its taken over for sure, living near a summer destination I see so many more people "camping" in their 100k tent on wheels. I've always had a truck or a minivan and have never felt the need to upgrade, but I do admit that I enjoy the wilderness and literally being grounded. I also stay away from creepy places, Walmart parking lots and busy campgrounds. For a while it was funny that people were paying 3000.00 for Rooftop tents, now they are the poor dirtbags compared to all the vansion folks driving around. We have it real good in the USA no doubt!

And yeah Nick, having a vehicle to crash out in during storms or random sketchy places is pretty sweet, just not worth draining my retirement fund (which I plan on using for a nice boat that can take me to Thailand and Greece).

I was aware of tents, but that isn’t what I was asking about.

Anyways, used to sleep in the dirt next to my clapped out old sedan on a walmart tarp every weekend to go climb in yosemite. Then, got and moved into a van because the payment on a 25k van was half what I was paying in rent to live with 10 other dudes in a 3 bedroom house.

I find I sleep better and have more fun when I don’t have to mess with a tent and the elements on the weekend, because I climb for fun and not because I’m trying to be a miserable crusty hardman. I am game to sleep in tents if my kid(s) get stoked on it, but until then, I shall enjoy the comforts afforded to me by vehicle camping. I appreciate all the tips from the usual trolls/crusters who turned out to cool people for this thread.

Anyone have a good resource on how to put a third seat into a van without the original bolt downs accessible?

John Clark wrote:

Anyone have a good resource on how to put a third seat into a van without the original bolt downs accessible?

This is the one thing I had professionally done and they performed the install after I had installed and insulated my floor. I had this done by a custom RV company in Minnesota and it was actually pretty inexpensive considering they installed a leather, fold down bench seat with a bench behind it and 3 shoulder seat belts.

Jake wander wrote:

This is the one thing I had professionally done and they performed the install after I had installed and insulated my floor. I had this done by a custom RV company in Minnesota and it was actually pretty inexpensive considering they installed a leather, fold down bench seat with a bench behind it and 3 shoulder seat belts.

What did that set you back? I would shell out a little more to have someone who knows what they’re doing perform the install.

John Clark wrote:

What did that set you back? I would shell out a little more to have someone who knows what they’re doing perform the install.

I think it was $2500. That included the seat and the installation. Very happy with the turnout and peace of mind that my son is in a professionally installed seatbelt and the seat is bolted through the floor, not some plywood that will destroy both of us in a serious accident.

Princess Puppy Lovr wrote:

Congrats my wife and I are also expecting. My largest takeaway from my friends with little ones is the sheer amount of stuff they kinda need, so your sprinter might feel cramed with toys, books, chair for them to eat, food for them, etc. Long term how would you sleep with a 3 year old sleep in the sprinter?

Congrats on the kid, if the whole family thing is what you’re going for    I think with good organizational skills a sprinter would work just fine. I grew up going on 3-4 week vacations out of an E-350. Kids don’t need as much shit (read: toys) as you’d think, especially if you’re out in nature. They’ll entertain themselves. 

As far as where the 3 year old would sleep, with a little ingenuity you can make it work. I’ve seen people make bunks above the bed, I’ve seen extensions of the bed added, I’ve seen “basements” under the bed area. Creativity is key. The biggest hassle I see with a sprinter is the constant shuffling around of the kitchen/sleeping area….not so much the amount of stuff.

With that said, for a family I would 100% recommend a truck and trailer, especially if you can swing a pop up camper for short weekend trips (most trucks + wedge campers + used trailer can come in under the price of a built out sprinter). Worth considering if you’re ok with a used trailer. 

Not Not MP Admin wrote:

Kids don’t need as much shit (read: toys) as you’d think, especially if you’re out in nature. They’ll entertain themselves. 

Exactly.  My daughters (now entering HS) for over a decade got by on a sketch pad, a pocketknife, and some 550 cord — to whittle and assemble sticks and driftwood into whatever Toy they wanted.  Good learning that lasts a lifetime and keeps em busy.
(course they are now down a few digits and an eye, but the “character building” is priceless)

 Worth considering if you’re ok with a used trailer. 

can get steals from retirees who never used them as much as they intended.  Just get good tires!  Had a nightmare with double blowouts coming back from the Tetons one year.  Everything else was like brand new. 

John Clark wrote:

Anyone have a good resource on how to put a third seat into a van without the original bolt downs accessible?

Depends on the vehicle. For my first sprinter, I actually took apart the passenger seat pillar of my sprinter to see how they did it, and it's literally just holes drilled through the floor. I picked a seat I liked off of suburbanseats.com, and I was off to the races.

For the second one, we got some seats off what I assume was a hotel shuttle, and did the same thing again.

We experimented with some rail-mounted, removable seats, but the dimensions didn't quite work (seats from a promaster were dimensioned in imperial units, major features in the sprinter are all metric, so the rails didn't line up with the ribs in the floor).

The real point of spending the money is to get a proper vehicle seat, and bolt it to the metal of the vehicle. I've seen way too many wooden boxes with straps stapled to them serving as "car seat mounts". The seat belt needs to have a burly attachment to the frame.

Mark Pilate wrote:

Exactly.  My daughters (now entering HS) for over a decade got by on a sketch pad, a pocketknife, and some 550 cord — to whittle and assemble sticks and driftwood into whatever Toy they wanted.  Good learning that lasts a lifetime and keeps em busy.
(course they are now down a few digits and an eye, but the “character building” is priceless)

Yup, all the tiny people I camp with get by just fine playing baseball with sticks and pine cones lol 

John Clark wrote:

I’m not too concerned about having a bathroom in the vehicle. The truck camper seems cramped compared to my van as it is right now. Anyone have experience with the smaller pod-like trailers?

Does your wife agree with that?  One of the main motivators for me to get an RV 17 years ago was I just got to the point where I was done done done with getting out of the warm tent in the middle of the night to venture out to the often cold, sometimes wet and windy exterior to pee twice a night.  And then trying to warm up again, with my always cold constitution, after crawling back into the sleeping bag. Talk about disrupting a good night's sleep. Add in the mess and inconveniences of a menstrual cycle.  As a man you may not realize that when you are in the heavy bleeding phase of your period, the toilet is absolutely full of blood every time you pee.  So with that, you add having to trudge all the way to the pit toilet or bathroom of the campground.  You can't exactly leave no trace peeing during your period without digging a deep pit.  Maybe that helps you imagine how wonderful the interior facilities are.  Once you toddler starts using a toilet to shit, the same considerations of having an interior toilet start to apply.

A few of our friends have the pod-like trailers as you refer to them.  The advantage is that they are light and short wheelbase - easy to tow.  The lightness means they can be towed by even some regular passenger cars.  When you start taking a look into this, you will see how many trailers exceed the tow capacities of even light trucks.  Also, many of them do not have kitchens on the interior. They have an interior sink , bunk and minifridge, but the cooking set-up is used from an exterior opening panel - which to me defeats one of the main purposes of getting a trailer, which is protection from the elements.

I do think a trailer is a good solution for the next phase of your life, but you have plenty of time -as a current van owner, you may not feel a big need to do it until your infant is past the diaper phase.  You van may work OK until then. As far as towing, a small size trailer should give you all the comforts of home, including an indoor toilet.  The combined tow length of my RV plus tow car was 45 feet, but this was a 28' RV.   This can be a bit difficult with hairpin turn such as one finds on Sonora Pass, but I never had a problem going to or passing through Tuolumne Meadows.  You can get a trailer from 17 feet to 21 feet which will have all the facilites. Pair this with a shortbed high clearance truck for the towing capacity.

I advise people thinking of going down this road to keep an eye out for big RV shows, held typically at fairgrounds.  Go stand inside everything and look at how it's laid out.  Ask out required tow capacities.  Another good place to start is just to look at You tube videos.  There are a ton of them, for example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5e9IcM37gk

All these things are a trade off.  I loved having my RV plus Subaru for all those years because having a detachable car meant I could get into Black Velvet Canyon or Clark Canyon or the like.   And still have the luxury of a small apartment on climbing trips.  This was great for the extended road trips I was making, which meant rest days and bad weather days.  The downside was the storage issue for the RV when not in use, the process of hooking and unhooking, the maneuverability issues on the road (you have to be careful about directions requiring you to make a u-turn, gas station in and outs can be a problem, reserving campsites FAR in advance, if you want to stay in a campground and not a forest area.

Looks like I should put my engineering degree to use to develop an anchor through the floor for a seat. I am too cheap to shell out 2500 for a seat install.

Phylp, she likes going outside to take care of business and I have offered to buy/make a toilet for her to use inside the van. As for the trailer towing, my family is from rural Iowa and I have been towing/backing trailers since I was 11 or 12. Good point on Sonora, I don’t even like doing those eastern switchbacks in my van. I’ll have to keep that in mind as an edge case for paved driving. May have to find a trailer with spring and dampers depending on where our little fam ends up frequenting. Most the East Side and short approach climbing seems doable with careful packing and a heavy foot on the gas to smooth out the bumps.