Best app tracking training & climbing effort?

Hey,

Coming at this from a running perspective, where Garmin, Cronos, Strava & co do a really good job of tracking training load/efforts. I've always been somewhat underwhelmed by an equivalent for climbing. As far as I can tell, MyClimb app seems to be OK. But it also does a lot of other stuff I don't care about.

What I am looking for is the best app to:

• keep track of stuff I climb, e.g. # of climbs with grades
• keep track of different types of training exercises:
  • weight lifting
  • hangboard
  • campusing
• Be able to export that data in some format (csv, json or whatever) so I can define my metrics in some google sheet or similar to track my progress/training load

For handboard, campusing, I want to be able to define the type of holds, along with rest/work details. MyClimb seems OK, but I'd like something that just focuses on tracking training/effort stuff. I don't really care for all the rest of the flaff, and it seems to me it's a little more complicated than really needed (for just a training log thingy).

Any other suggestions?

Spreadsheets on Google drive. Nothing beats it

Aaron Liebling wrote:

Spreadsheets on Google drive. Nothing beats it

Yeah... I used to do (including for running). Maybe I just lack self-discipline with it, but my experience with this approach is that I invariably skip/botch some of it and tends to go sideways at some point.

Gps watches/strava has been a real personal revolution for training accountability for me - I just start the watch, it fills out all the paperwork for me and then I can do whatever I want with the data. I'd like an app for climbing, because bringing my phone with me, selecting whatever exercise I've prefilled is quick and easy. My personal conclusion is that if it's not quick & easy to do, I'll have trouble sticking to it as times goes by.

Although, maybe you're right. Perhaps I could take the time to set myself up with a nice google sheet/google form. Predefine my exercises in there, and just fill out my google form as I train. Then I'd just have a few drop-down/number to enter and that would pipe the data into a usable form already. Downside perhaps being needing internet, unless google-form has some offline thingy I could setup.

Crimpd 

Franck Vee wrote:

Yeah... I used to do (including for running). Maybe I just lack self-discipline with it, but my experience with this approach is that I invariably skip/botch some of it and tends to go sideways at some point.

Gps watches/strava has been a real personal revolution for training accountability for me - I just start the watch, it fills out all the paperwork for me and then I can do whatever I want with the data. I'd like an app for climbing, because bringing my phone with me, selecting whatever exercise I've prefilled is quick and easy. My personal conclusion is that if it's not quick & easy to do, I'll have trouble sticking to it as times goes by.

Although, maybe you're right. Perhaps I could take the time to set myself up with a nice google sheet/google form. Predefine my exercises in there, and just fill out my google form as I train. Then I'd just have a few drop-down/number to enter and that would pipe the data into a usable form already. Downside perhaps being needing internet, unless google-form has some offline thingy I could setup.

Nah dude, you're way overthinking this. Setting up a form is way overkill. Just put the rows in a spreadsheet.

I have different tabs for each rough grouping of exercises. Current tabs are "Hang" (hangboard), "NoHang" (pinch or crimp blocks with weight), "Barbell" (barbell exercise, plus a pullup bar exercises), "Prehab" (low weight, high rep exercises for shoulder/elbow/wrist), "Rings" (gymnastics rings exercises), "Hips" (strength at range stuff for hip strength/mobility), "SkinFold" (body fat tracking with skin fold test).

For most exercises, I collect two measures: the progress variable, and reps-in-reserve (RIR). For 4-finger half crimp max hangs, for example, it's always the same edge (20mm), always the same hangs (3x10s).

1. The only thing I change over time is the progress variable: in the case of 4-finger crimp max hangs, the progress variable is added weight.
2. RIR is a measure of effort: higher RIR means it's easier. For 4-finger crimp max hangs, I record the number of seconds I think I could hang after the last set (no more than 5, because I don't believe estimates larger than that are accurate). So if I finish my last hang and feel fresh enough that I think I could have held on for another 3 seconds, I'd record 3 for the RIR. If I fail a set, that gets negative RIR--for example, if I'm doing 3 x 10 second hangs, I might make it through the first hang, fail at 9 seconds for the second hang, and fail at 4 seconds for the third hang. This would be -7RIR because I missed my goal by 1 second on the second hang (-1) and missed my goal by 6 seconds on the third hang (-6) for a total of -7.

This gives me all the information I need in my experience. RIR is useful because, for example, if I hit 5RIR and then -15RIR two days later on the same exercise with just 2lbs added, that probably means I am working at an intensity where I need to rest more between working that exercise. Or if I hit -3, -4, and -6 RIR in three workouts of the same exercise with lots of rest days in between, that probably means I need to deload because I'm at my limit and no longer making progress.

So the big picture is a sheet looks like:

------ | Exercise 1 --------| ----- | Exercise 2 ------|

Date | 3x10s added lbs | RIR | 3x5 added lbs  | RIR

I can graph this data, correlate different exercises, etc. with very little effort. A form would be helpful if I didn't know how my system worked, but given I DO know how my system works, a form serves no purpose.

Interesting, I didn't know about RIR as a measure of effort. Will sure look into it.

But yeah, I know myself, just a random spreadsheet won't cut it, it'll definitely just go to die on some random Gdrive folder (either "/oldrandomstuff", or "/tosortout", or maybe that old google account I'm not really using anymore....). Still a notch better than the 42 paper training sheets stuff in my drawer that I'm definitely going to enter into a spreadsheet... someday... I'm not kidding when I say that a gps watch + strava revolutionized my running. I need to be spoon-feed with this stuff, otherwise it falls by the wayside. I'm a data geek, but I'm also whatever the polar opposite of a good accountant is. I want what I have for running, and since you can't just (yet) start a watch that immediately understand & record that I'm doing wide pinch weighted hangs, well, I want whatever next is least maintenance/record-keeping on my part.

You think a G-form is overkill? Lol, consider that I'm half-seriously thinking coding something myself. I'm not a mobile dev, so that's an issue, but I could set myself up some web app perhaps, mobile-friendly display, I guess then I'd have 100% what I'm looking for. The main thing holding me back on this is that it won't be available before a fair bit of time (judging by how much free time I have these day to code personal stuff). A g-form would be way faster. Just a spreadsheet faster still I agree - but likely not sustainable for me.

If you find/make one, I’d love to know.

I’m using a pen+notebook, but it’s a pain yo go back and try to find things later.

For hangboard and campus phases I just make a table in my notebook, and record things all on one page for the duration of the training phase. Then, when I have a bit of time, I transcribe this into an excel spreadsheet for graphs/record keeping.

I’ve used Crimpd while I was doing a Lattice training plan, and the Power Company app while I was doing their plan. Don’t like either one. And some of the info you add while doing a formal training plan is not visible/accessible as soon as the plan ends.

I wonder if the person who developed the Kilter and Tension apps could write one, and make the training app link to the boards, too… 

Franck Vee wrote:

Interesting, I didn't know about RIR as a measure of effort. Will sure look into it.

But yeah, I know myself, just a random spreadsheet won't cut it, it'll definitely just go to die on some random Gdrive folder (either "/oldrandomstuff", or "/tosortout", or maybe that old google account I'm not really using anymore....). Still a notch better than the 42 paper training sheets stuff in my drawer that I'm definitely going to enter into a spreadsheet... someday... I'm not kidding when I say that a gps watch + strava revolutionized my running. I need to be spoon-feed with this stuff, otherwise it falls by the wayside. I'm a data geek, but I'm also whatever the polar opposite of a good accountant is. I want what I have for running, and since you can't just (yet) start a watch that immediately understand & record that I'm doing wide pinch weighted hangs, well, I want whatever next is least maintenance/record-keeping on my part.

You think a G-form is overkill? Lol, consider that I'm half-seriously thinking coding something myself. I'm not a mobile dev, so that's an issue, but I could set myself up some web app perhaps, mobile-friendly display, I guess then I'd have 100% what I'm looking for. The main thing holding me back on this is that it won't be available before a fair bit of time (judging by how much free time I have these day to code personal stuff). A g-form would be way faster. Just a spreadsheet faster still I agree - but likely not sustainable for me.

I dunno man, I feel like at some point it's not about the tools, it's about the discipline. You just gotta suck it up and do it.

I don't know a ton about Strava, but it's my impression that it collects a lot of data for you, no? A Google form makes it marginally easier to enter the data, but doesn't change the fact that you have to enter the data, so I suspect this isn't going to change things for you. Creating something that would collect the data for climbing for you might be possible but it's going to take a lot more effort than either of us is going to put in.

Lest I come across as being on my high horse about this, I'll admit that I developed a webapp for recording my climbing sessions at one point. It wasn't a good use of my time.  

EDIT: with regards to RIR, you may also want to look into Rate of Perceived Exertion (RPE). RIR is simpler and more objective IMO, but there's more scientific research on RPE from what I've seen.

You don't need to even collect RIR to make these spreadsheets useful, BTW. I just described it as an example of how one might expand the spreadsheet to get more use out of it.

Lena chita wrote:

I’ve used Crimpd while I was doing a Lattice training plan, and the Power Company app while I was doing their plan. Don’t like either one. And some of the info you add while doing a formal training plan is not visible/accessible as soon as the plan ends.

I wonder if the person who developed the Kilter and Tension apps could write one, and make the training app link to the boards, too… 

I somewhat doubt they would. The app is essential to have the boards be attractive product, but as far as I know they make the money from selling the kit for the board, not the app itself. and I'm not sure how training details, outside of the routes, would really add value to that, from a business perspective. It would be a decent amount of work to add those functionalities. End users would appreciate it, but I'm skeptical it would be enough of a differentiation for gyms to go for one system against the others. Unless perhaps one of those would decide they could become some sort of an "all-included" by reaching wider than just the boards. But then (if I get their business right) I guess they'd need to find a way to sell training gear related to it somehow.

Revisiting this. I’m relatively happy with crimpd for tracking workouts. Anyone happy with an app for route/bouldering tracking?

I track my climbing workouts with the polar HR trackers (but this isn't what you asked for). I think a lot of the fitness device makers are currently working on more climbing specific software.

I haven't used this, but a friend sent me a link to the latest Coros advert which seems closer to what you are looking for:

Coros climbing app