Thoughts on ALPHANE?

This is probably one of my favorite North face presents videos. Return of sleepwalker had a bunch of weird fluff that I don't know I would really care to watch again. In particular I really like the edit of 9 videos of shawn climbing alphane while simple it is cool and really demonstrates the subtle differences on movement between a good go and a bad go. I also think they got really really good angles on most the boulder problems, I spent a lot of time wondering if daniel woods on squalo bianco was missing key knee bars. Thoughts on a new v17? Somewhat jokingly this video does make it seem like Daniel Woods is possibly being surpassed by Shawn.

I thought those super-imposed shots of Shawn in Part 1 were also cool (although a bit distracting at first). Jimmy's River Arete Proj looked awesome and had a sweet angle, real bummer he messed up his ankle. 

Side thought: Any video that doesn't pump in fake finger tendon/ligament noise like Reel Rock passes in my book.

9/10

Oh. Its bouldering.

The edits, the filming, the climbing; all around excellent video and I don't typically get stoked on bouldering films. (I liked sleepwalker tho)

I had to wonder how much cleaning it takes for some of these boulders, seemed like in one area the boulders were made entirely of moss.

‘Trip to the moon’ was my favorite line of he bunch. Really cool video.

Modern bouldering movies make me miss the personalities of boulderers in the Dosage movies. Where are the bananas for solidity. Where are the animal bone stick shifts. It makes me sad no modern boulderer will ever have the charisma Sharma did in his prime.

On that note, my main thought about ALPHANE was that they didn't use Dave Graham enough.

I liked the video. An awesome collection of boulders. Jimmy's fall makes me reconsider a riverside arete boulder that caught my eye in Leavy...Watercolors, if anyone knows it.

Regarding who is stronger, Daniel vs Shawn vs anyone else, I think it's too complex of a question to answer. Different styles, different bodies (although I think they're similar height?), different training periods, etc. It's not like Daniel is past his prime, he just sent ROTS last year. All those dudes are certainly at the top and who knows who else is out there, silently crushing.

Connor Varney wrote:

Side thought: Any video that doesn't pump in fake finger tendon/ligament noise like Reel Rock passes in my book.

I've seen this comment around a couple times.  Is that sound supposed to be fake tendon noises? It always sounded like fingernails scraping on the rock to me

Caleb Mattson wrote:

I've seen this comment around a couple times.  Is that sound supposed to be fake tendon noises? It always sounded like fingernails scraping on the rock to me

Could be. But why is it so common on just the Reel Rocks? How often are you hearing your own nails scrape up against rocks?

To me it sounds like an artificial crunch, and not a nail scrape which normally makes my hair stand in end and gives me chills. I believe there’s some funny sound editing going on and it’s over the top and ruins the immersion for me every time.  

Connor Varney wrote:

Could be. But why is it so common on just the Reel Rocks? How often are you hearing your own nails scrape up against rocks?

Haha fair.  I just assumed they were using smaller holds than I do.  Maybe has something to do with the mic situation? the recent clips of Margo on Kryptonite It sounded like she was mic'd up to capture the breathing, maybe it's just close enough to pick it up when Reel Rock shoots

To me it sounds like an artificial crunch, and not a nail scrape which normally makes my hair stand in end and gives me chills. I believe there’s some funny sound editing going on and it’s over the top and ruins the immersion for me every time.  

I agree that's pretty obnoxious if that's what it is

Desert Rock Sports wrote:

Oh. Its bouldering.

What is this myspace?

Caleb Mattson wrote:

Haha fair.  I just assumed they were using smaller holds than I do.  Maybe has something to do with the mic situation? the recent clips of Margo on Kryptonite It sounded like she was mic'd up to capture the breathing, maybe it's just close enough to pick it up when Reel Rock shoots

I agree that's pretty obnoxious if that's what it is

My guess is that it is sometimes captured in the audio but not often. Once a bunch of people at a crag thought I tore my acl because they all hear a loud pop. I have seen multiple people hurt a pulley and heard nothing. I think you could tell if its fake by how the other sounds of climbing are being captured, can you hear the clips? Can you hear the crash pad landing? In every movie about someone decking there is the sound of the rope pulling through the anchor. 

Princess Puppy Lovr wrote:

This is probably one of my favorite North face presents videos. 

Agreed. Really enjoyed the film. I think Ben and team absolutely killed it.

 I also think they got really really good angles on most the boulder problems, I spent a lot of time wondering if daniel woods on squalo bianco was missing key knee bars. Thoughts on a new v17?

I don’t think you know something Daniel doesn’t. If he wasn’t using knee bars it was for a reason. Even if it makes it harder. I have a buddy who is trying to do every 5.13a in Rifle sans kneebars just because he’s sent 90% of the 5.13’s there and needs a challenge that’s motivating for him when he’s not projecting harder routes.

Though, I suspect in Squalo Bianco’s case it’s likely due to the knee bars not being the best beta for him. Maybe for others, but it doesn’t make sense he wouldn’t use them and he’s been around long enough to know if they work or not.

 Somewhat jokingly this video does make it seem like Daniel Woods is possibly being surpassed by Shawn.

I could agree in saying “surpassing“. Shawn doesn’t have close to the resume to have surpassed DWoods at this point for me. DWoods has one of the most impressive bouldering (multiple V17’s), comp (multiple world cups wins), and sport climbing (multiple hard 5.15’s) resumes of any climber. The interesting thing about Shawn is that there are consistently rumors of him sending hard boulders without posting about it or telling social media. In Alphane’s case I don’t really know if it was to build hype for the Mellow movie or not. Either way, he‘s def on his way to catching up DWoods in bouldering for sure. 

For Mellow: their editing is only getting better, this was a superstar laden super cool film with unique elements that make it stand out from recent bouldering films etc

In general: yeah I definitely wish that pro climbers didn't act like, uh, boring pro athletes. I think they takrthemselfes v seriously. The sends were pretty radical and I think it's very mega of Shawn to say he was annoyed that you 'have to post every time you do a route', based.

Not Not MP Admin wrote:

Agreed. Really enjoyed the film. I think Ben and team absolutely killed it.

I don’t think you know something Daniel doesn’t. If he wasn’t using knee bars it was for a reason. Even if it makes it harder. I have a buddy who is trying to do every 5.13a in Rifle sans kneebars just because he’s sent 90% of the 5.13’s there and needs a challenge that’s motivating for him when he’s not projecting harder routes.

Though, I suspect in Squalo Bianco’s case it’s likely due to the knee bars not being the best beta for him. Maybe for others, but it doesn’t make sense he wouldn’t use them and he’s been around long enough to know if they work or not.

D'woods probably knows what's going on but you'd be surprised how many strong people I know that won't or can't learn how to kneebar and just say 'ill be stronger' and then I (or more often Trevor) show them a kneebar and they send instantly.

I could agree in saying “surpassing“. Shawn doesn’t have close to the resume to have surpassed DWoods at this point for me. DWoods has one of the most impressive bouldering (multiple V17’s), comp (multiple world cups wins), and sport climbing (multiple hard 5.15’s) resumes of any climber. The interesting thing about Shawn is that there are consistently rumors of him sending hard boulders without posting about it or telling social media. In Alphane’s case I don’t really know if it was to build hype for the Mellow movie or not. Either way, he‘s def on his way to catching up DWoods in bouldering for sure. 

Whether or not the resume is there, it seems that at the present time Shawn is the best boulderer in the world.

I don't think that Mr. Dwoods has [one of the most] impressive sport or comp climbing resumes. Did he even climb 9b+, I thought just 9b. Which is mighty impressive but not one of the most impressive. And a lot of Europeans have won plenty of world cups 

Daniel Chode Rider wrote:

D'woods probably knows what's going on but you'd be surprised how many strong people I know that won't or can't learn how to kneebar and just say 'ill be stronger' and then I (or more often Trevor) show them a kneebar and they send instantly.

I’m sure we could all come up with some anecdotal reasoning to say why these pro climbers presumably didn’t send a boulder. However, with all due respect, these ”strong people” you know:

• aren’t DWoods
• probably don’t have other world class climbers projecting with them for long durations of time trying different betas
• probably aren’t climbing V14 FA’s

If only you and Trevstar were there to help him though…

Whether or not the resume is there, it seems that at the present time Shawn is the best boulderer in the world.

Because he did the most recent V17? I won’t argue against that because it would be splitting hairs, but I would have to disagree. There are far more boulders that Woods has put up that Shawn hasn’t repeated compared to vice versa. This is also why I said “surpassing” and not “surpassed” DWoods. But again, splitting hairs. Nobody is going to win this argument. There are very few at their level and it’s hard to differentiate which is “better”. It’s 1a and 1b as far as I‘m concerned. 

I don't think that Mr. Dwoods has [one of the most] impressive sport or comp climbing resumes. 

Did he even climb 9b+, I thought just 9b. Which is mighty impressive but not one of the most impressive. 

I agree, maybe my verbiage was weird but I meant that he has one of the most impressive (cumulative) climbing resumes, not specific to any one discipline (though his bouldering resume is probably the most impressive of anyone) . His obvious focus/highlight is bouldering but is extremely accomplished in comp and sport climbing as well. When you look at all 3 together his resume is certainly in consideration for one of the best .

As far as comp climbing goes. I was misconstruing world cups for domestic comps. I was mostly referring to the old ABS circuit (idk what it’s called now) but back in the day, before you started climbing, it was pretty much only Paul Robinson and Daniel Woods in the bouldering comp game. Probably not one of the best resumes anymore given the popularity of the sport, but certainly impressive given the versatility.

And a lot of Europeans have won plenty of world cups 

You’re correct in that, like I said, I was mistakenly referencing world cups instead of the ABS circuit. Regardless few have the body of work outside of comp climbs like DWoods. The exceptions being Ondra and Schubert. 

I thought Mellow in general was a cool concept - and I thought that concept was having the boulderers in control of the content they produce and post and have fun regardless of sponsors or other obligations. Friends hanging out. It was fun to see less than super polished work. But that's not what this channel is anymore (or wasn't, and I got the vibe wrong). It's just another outlet for TNF. Perhaps it was a bait and switch like much of Youtube: once the subscriber count gets higher, change the content drastically.

I though the video itself was pretty OK. A little too heavy on the editing special effects to be honest - I didn't like any of the filters on the video that would distort the footage, but that's a pretty small point and one that's subjective. There was a lot of well-framed and directed shots. In many of the boulders, I actually got a sense of geography of where these boulders may actually be in the world, so kudos. Too bad the money shot at the end looked like it was done on an iPhone, but hey: it happens. See also Burden of Dreams. You can't just send V17 on command.

Bouldering movies are turning into projecting movies, which is sort of an interesting trend. I was actually initially surprised that they stretched sending a single boulder over a 47 minute movie, with footage mostly of falls. I also kinda get that bouldering at this level also means constantly recording yourself doing it, in the hopes that you'll catch lightning in a bottle.

Maybe some constructive critique would be to show some footage of these absolute beasts doing something other than bouldering and brushing holds. Even Sharma was shown drinking a glass of wine in the Bibliographie video. Add a little bit of humanity.

Not Not MP Admin wrote:

I don’t think you know something Daniel doesn’t. If he wasn’t using knee bars it was for a reason. Even if it makes it harder. I have a buddy who is trying to do every 5.13a in Rifle sans kneebars just because he’s sent 90% of the 5.13’s there and needs a challenge that’s motivating for him when he’s not projecting harder routes.

Just reckless speculation, but on empath it seems he didn't use the best beta and if you are doing first ascents he might have gotten tunnel vision. I also can't think of a single video with D woods using a knee bar on a first ascent just where he repeats a climbing known to have cryptic knee bar beta. There are a few of him repeating other climbs but he isn't like Ondra or even me (the mighty puppy lover) and wears a knee bar pad on onsight attempts. 

Long Ranger wrote:

I thought Mellow in general was a cool concept - and I thought that concept was having the boulderers in control of the content they produce and post and have fun regardless of sponsors or other obligations. Friends hanging out. It was fun to see less than super polished work. But that's not what this channel is anymore (or wasn't, and I got the vibe wrong). It's just another outlet for TNF. 

I though the video was pretty OK. A little too heavy on the editing special effects to be honest - I didn't like any of the filters on the video that would distort the footage, but that's a pretty small point and one that's subjective. There was a lot of well-framed and directed shots. In many of the boulders, I actually got a sense of geography of where these boulders may actually be in the world, so kudos. Too bad the money shot at the end looked like it was done on an iPhone, but hey: it happens. See also Burden of Dreams. You can't just send V17 on command.

Bouldering movies are turning into projecting movies, which is sort of an interesting trend. I was actually initially surprised that they stretched sending a single boulder over a 47 minute movie, with footage mostly of falls. I also kinda get that bouldering at this level also means constantly recording yourself doing it, in the hopes that you'll catch lightning in a bottle.

Maybe some constructive critique would be to show some footage of these absolute beasts doing something other than bouldering and brushing holds. Even Sharma was shown drinking a glass of wine in the Bibliographie video. Add a little bit of humanity.

I think what happened is people constantly complain there is not enough climbing in reel rock/free solo/ other movies so mellow swung back the other way by being mostly climbing content. It is quite bizarre so many people shrug off hard bouldering videos because most hard roped climbing ascents will be missing the vast majority of climbing footage. People are gonna at me with dosage/whatever but people don't want to watch climbing from 100 feet away. Bouldering is the only discipline where the majority of content can actually be about climbing. No one is good enough at camera work and ascending to record even 50% of the pitches on a bigwall climb push. 

J T wrote:

Do you mean Carlo? Daniel hasn’t done Empath and Carlo did the FA, or do you mean Daniel’s attempts on Empath (I haven’t seen any footage of him attempting it if that’s the case). Either way the best/easiest beta for everyone else might not be the best/easiest beta for others. They may have missed the “correct” beta once or twice on FA’s but Empath, for example, has seen a multitude of attempts and a few repeats so it would seem the best consensus beta has been found. I imagine the same is true of Squalo even if it’s seen less sends  

I believe it went carlo 15a, jimmy 15a, daniel 15a, ethan 14+, and connor 14c. Ethan and connor both did it differently. 

Are there DWoods problems that have a distinct, mandatory knee bar that he didn’t use on the FA that consequently changed the grade? I genuinely don’t know but I can’t think of any. My point being that it could still be V14 with knee bars. This isn’t his first hard FA, he knows how to appropriately find beta and grade a climb   

I think there is a 13d in rifle where Daniel just crimped the whole thing and it had knee bar beta? I am sure he knows better than me, just reckless speculation! 

This is a silly, nerdy debate. Which I appreciate. I have no opinion on whether DWoods can kneebar or not. However, I do have an additional data point to add to Trevor's initial speculation about Squalo: If you watch the video of Dave Graham on Squalo, you see he wears a pad and does 2 kneebars. So the kneebars do exist. But Graham also took V14 for the problem, so they don't necessarily make it notably easier.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CaP1idRgXcM/

My guess from the videos would be that they are pretty marginal wizardry kneescum. They work for Graham, but for Woods it probably felt easier to just core up and pull.

Princess Puppy Lovr wrote:

I believe it went carlo 15a, jimmy 15a, daniel 15a, ethan 14+, and connor 14c. Ethan and connor both did it differently.

You are correct, I guess what I was trying (poorly) to say was that DWoods didn’t do the FA and that Conor’s beta, while easier for him, was probably not easier for DWoods. I’m other words, using the jamming beta probably felt just as hard as the original beta for DWoods therefore resulted in the same personal difficulty grade.

I think there is a 13d in rifle where Daniel just crimped the whole thing and it had knee bar beta? I am sure he knows better than me, just reckless speculation! 

This kinda showcases my point. Did DWoods do the FA and then the route get downgraded with kneebars later on? If not then that supports my point that the route(s) can be the same level of difficulty for DWoods sans knee bar as it is for everyone else with knee bar.

Not Not MP Admin wrote:

This kinda showcases my point. Did DWoods do the FA and then the route get downgraded with kneebars later on? If not then that supports my point that the route(s) can be the same level of difficulty for DWoods sans knee bar as it is for everyone else with knee bar.

I don't know which Rifle 13d is being referenced, but most of those first got kneebarred (and in some cases downgraded) when Woods was a toddler in the early 90s.