Rope goes 'bad' after 10 years even if stored? Really?

Matt Robinson wrote:

Are those live power lines right next to/under the tree you want to climb?

Looks like it, the kind that would drop down to a house or meter at least. Get the powerlines shut off while the tree is being worked, hire a professional. 

Your trees look like they got topped?

Those technically are not power lines. Those are service lines. Sure, they have electricity, but nothing like the ones you’ve been trained to fear mightily.

Kinda hesitant to tell you what to do here. Cut small over the lines so that anything hitting those lines won’t break them. Obviously don’t cut the lines, either. You can call to have the power company remove the power for a few hours while you work. I wouldn’t, but you probably should since you are not a professional.

Your picture angle kinda sucks in regards to seeing high tie in points. Your trees look like they got topped?!? If so, it really weakens the integrity of the trees and I’d suggest removal and planting of new trees. You already made a LOT of improper cuts on a species of tree that DOES NOT TOLERATE that type of treatment.

do not dangle from a rope while cutting. Look up yourube videos of tree work positioning to get an idea of how you would need to do it if you physically climb the trees. They would be very easy jobs if you can get a proper tie in point and a hip lanyard for work positioning 

7/10

Not disagreeing with anything Erik posted, but here’s the perspective of an experienced climber/half-assed arborist (not professional, but dozens of trees under my belt) , who has done similar trees as shown.  

• Don’t be a hack.  thoroughly study up, plan, and get/use the proper equipment.  Whether its worth it depends on the quotes,  access a contractor has to this site, if this is a one off, or you’ll be doing several more eventually.   In my case, spending a grand on gear was approx 1/30th the total cost of hiring (not just 1 tree)
• if this is your residence, the power company will drop those lines and reconnect for free (at least in my area)
• Being skilled and proficient with the correct saw (and cut) for the job is key to safety
• Controlling the drop of the cut limb is next.   Once that thing is “free”, there should be no surprises as to where it goes and how.

good luck and post up your results 

Erik Strand wrote:

Those technically are not power lines. Those are service lines. Sure, they have electricity, but nothing like the ones you’ve been trained to fear mightily. 

This is a bit irresponsible. Those 100% are power lines. A 240V house service drop has enough voltage to send your heart into defibrillation. It’s also not fused like the circuits in your house, so it’s capable of pumping serious current into a person to get to ground without popping a fuse. The coating on the wire should insulate it, but you can’t really trust it because the wire may have been sitting out in the sun for decades, degrading the insulation.

That said, Erik’s right that this is low-voltage if you compare it to the high-voltage primary lines that distribute electricity throughout a neighborhood. It’s not likely to go to ground through a tree or arc just from getting too close without making contact.

Industry safety standards say to “avoid contact” (which means NEVER MAKE CONTACT) when working near lines below 500V, which this likely is. Erik’s right that you’re better off asking the utility to de-energize the line if you’re going to do the work yourself. I still think you’re better off paying a professional. It sucks to rip the weatherhead off your house.

I agree, there are a lot of bad cuts on that tree. Would be interested to see a picture of the whole tree if you’re interested in going further off-topic and having us assess its health. Looks like a Scots pine? If so, as long as it has a decent amount of canopy above it’s probably fine and not very susceptible to decay. Cleaning up the cuts is advisable if the tree is in good health, and that will take some work that will require a chainsaw. Again, running a chainsaw aloft without proper training is not advisable, and I encourage you to hire a professional arborist to perform the work.

Source: I am a certified arborist utility specialist, NJ state licensed tree expert, and an educator in the tree care industry specializing in managing vegetation around electric and gas utility infrastructure. I’m also bored on a plane headed to Des Moines to ride my bike in the “Tour des Trees” to raise money for tree research and education. Shameless plug, if you love trees, consider donating to the TREE Fund to support my ride! The TREE Fund is a critical endowment that supports research and education in urban forestry and arboriculture. PM me if you’d like more info :) 

I've come close to dying on a DIY tree project and never even close on the rock. I only pick DIY tree projects I know I can 100% do safely now. 

I also break out 10+ year old ropes for these projects and TR gang bang sessions all the time. I'm sure some of the pro arborists/climbers here have done the same. We once pulled a tree down with a truck and a really old climbing rope, 100' of stretch and no break!

About the rope, if it's a dynamic rope it was designed to hold long falls.  Even if the nylon hasn't lost all its strength in 10 years, its energy absorbing properties might still be below spec.  That shouldn't matter in the context of tree trimming.  

If it's a dynamic rope and you need to ascend it, you might be wishing you had a static line. 

I take issue with the claim that arborist climbing gear is SOOOOOOOO different from rock climbing gear.  The local Ace hardware has an extensive arborist section, including a cabinet of hardware.  Over half of it is the exact pieces sold in climbing shops.  The carabiners, ascenders, slings, and a few other pieces were even the standard climbing brands like Petzl and Kong.  Many other pieces are the same designs but carry brands unfamiliar to us non-arborists.  Back when Ace had remarkable coupon deals, it was a great way to get Bluewater Titan slings.   

No one can disagree with a professional arborist that his or her job is dangerous.  Of course it is.  Anyone endeavoring to play that game needs to understand his or her limitations.  

Before I saw the picture, I'd have said, "If you have the rope skills to safely navigate some heights, go for it.  Get a cordless Sawzall with a 12" pruning blade and go to town."  But there are electrical lines there.   Damage one of those and even if you aren't hurt, or a family member isn't hurt, you will be out a lot more money than you would have paid hiring it out.  

Jay J wrote:

. 

I take issue with the claim that arborist climbing gear is SOOOOOOOO different from rock climbing gear.  

These are both harnesses made by petzl. The picture should speak for itself

Erik Strand wrote:

Yeah, man, both of my petzl harnesses are super similar.

the side D ring attachment points are crucial for proper work positioning. The floating bridge helps a ton with leaning in the tree. The padding is really nice when I’ve been sitting in my harness for six hours straight.

Looks like a beefed up version of a sit harness just like 98% of rock climbing harness.  Sure, it has to be made of tougher stuff for the rigors of all-day-every-day use, and it may need an extra tie in point, but it's the same basic design.  Anyone needing to just trim a few branches on occasion wouldn't need the big bat belt, but should be able to get by with a climbing harness.    

Construction fall protection, now that kit is different.  There's almost no overlap there.  But arborist stuff, eh, a lot of it's the same stuff.  

I will concede that the arborist clip stick works on a very different principle.

Jay J wrote:

The local Ace hardware has an extensive arborist section, including a cabinet of hardware.  Over half of it is the exact pieces sold in climbing shops.  The carabiners, ascenders, slings, and a few other pieces were even the standard climbing brands like Petzl and Kong.  Many other pieces are the same designs but carry brands unfamiliar to us non-arborists.  Back when Ace had remarkable coupon deals, it was a great way to get Bluewater Titan slings.   

The local ace hardware isn’t going to be the best place to compare arborist equipment to rock climbing equipment. I have full SRS and MRS tree climbing systems, and not a single piece of gear overlaps with rock climbing. Rope, carabiners, hitch cord, saddle, it’s all different. Some ascenders are the same as with aid climbing, you’re right about that, although I’m not an aid climber so I can’t really speak to that. I use a Camp Turbofoot ascender and a HAAS knee ascender. My systems are more applicable in caving than rock climbing.

This is a common issue in the tree care industry. People see the stuff at Home Depot and ace hardware and assume they know something about arboriculture. It’s a logical fallacy. Ace Hardware doesn’t know any more about arborist equipment than you do. Many homeowners kill themselves every year by following this line of thinking.

Tree equipment is much more similar to other rope access equipment for industrial applications than rock climbing equipment.

Can you get away with climbing a tree with a rock climbing harness? Absolutely. Have I done it? You bet I have. I’d even go so far as to say a competent rock climber with some years of experience under their belt could teach themselves enough to do easy pruning and removal. I still wouldn’t recommend it unless you’re really going to devote some time and money. I’ve read too many accident reports and heard of too many people bleeding to death while aloft. I’ll take a ground fall over getting a chainsaw wound while tied in any day. 

Fall arrest harnesses are more similar to tree climbing harnesses than a climbing harness is. (Edited cause i said it wrong at first)

Also, I wasn’t kidding when I said those extra attachment points are crucial for work positioning. You could likely get away with not using one for simple trees like this, but the moment your climbing becomes 3-D, those D rings become essential to be able to use both hands on your saw or for advancing to the end of a limb.

Saying you can work without them is like telling a rock climber that they don’t need both of their arms. Sure, you are not wrong, but it’s going to be tremendously harder.

It could also be compared to telling an aid climber that he doesn’t need step ladders for aid climbing.

Back to the main topic; 

My honest assessment is this; I can happily give advice on how to get it done via climbing, but the obvious answer is a nice pole saw from the ground. 4 8ft fiberglass extensions would be more than enough to do this job. Cut small and you won’t break those service lines. Call and have the power company remove them for a few hours if it worries you. I’ve honestly had many 75pound or less branches slap them on the way to the ground hundreds upon hundreds of times. Maybe thousands at this point. Be mindful of crotches snagging the lines. Be mindful of how gravity will take effect once the branches cut free. Dead wood reacts much different than live wood. These are all things you should pick up on quickly once you start cutting.

The pruning Keiran mentioned to fix it is acceptable but I’m still upset to see that they got hacked at so much. You can’t make those branches grow back again and lions tailing any trees is ergonomically bad for them. That is a topic of huge debate in arboriculture. Many would say this isn’t lions tailing; but they’re honestly wrong. Arborists would lose at least 66% of our work if we did what was good for the trees, instead of what the customer wants. Most prefer $ over losing money by educating the customer. That’s moreso a tangent of my hatred for the average arborist in the southeast. The west coast seems more caring

Based on the age of the rope you asked about; I would say you are a tad late in life to be teaching yourself how to be a climbing arborist. I was originally self taught but I started at 19 years old. I’ll still happily explain the process of what to do, but we would need picture from a different angle 

+1 for what Erik just said. 100% agree. 

ALL plastics loose their material properties over time. Just like how you shouldn't ski on old boots because those plasticizer leach out of the material/ oxidize, weakening it. 

Hmmm... how to minimize my responses after engineering school, 40 years of construction, and a fair amount of climbing...

- About the rope:  Yeah, plastics off gas chlorine over time, and rope loses elasticity.  Nylon happens to be really stable compared to other compounds, but still loses 

oomph (technical term denoting, alternately, strength, durability, power, or elasticity).

- About the rope:  It may have lost elasticity, but not enough to make it a static rope, which is (ask the arborists) better for the job at hand

- As a society, we forget that physical, hands-on work requires training, that the word "journeyman" is equal to "bachelor's degree" in many respects

- A professional is the perfect person for the job, any job.  Like doing a climb, but being able to call on Pam Pack for the OW, and Middendorf for the aid.

- As a climber, you are using two hands to stick to the rock, when you're working, you don't have that option...

- there is no such thing as unskilled labor.  Try it.  Or better yet, don't (see above comment about chainsaws in trees while tied off)

- Frame Carpenter = Alpine climber free soloing over shi**y landing while carrying aid rack and equivalent of semi-auto long rifle

- Roofer = Mountaineer on scree above shi**y landing, often free solo, with no self-arrest axe, but carrying a semi-auto carbine

- Arborist = Aid climber hanging on weighted line while trying to artfully control 80 paring knives on a string that is powered by a motorcycle engine

For years, people would say to me, "well, it's not rocket science", and I didn't know how to respond... now I say "You're right.  That's why rocket scientists don't build their own houses".  This tree is kind of like that...

Forthright wrote:

ALL plastics loose their material properties over time. Just like how you shouldn't ski on old boots because those plasticizer leach out of the material/ oxidize, weakening it. 

Don’t let Kyle see this…or G De Lany’s post.  You guys are in for a treat.  

Mark Pilate wrote:

Don’t let Kyle see this…or G De Lany’s post.  You guys are in for a treat.  

whatever you do, DO NOT bounce test that 25 year old rope

Ummm... Mark, why shouldn't Kyle see Forthright's post or mine?  He said he retires old soft goods, just not too picky about when.  What's the treat we are in for?  I'm assumin' it ain't milk 'n' cookies...

G De Lany wrote:

Ummm... Mark, why shouldn't Kyle see Forthright's post or mine?  He said he retires old soft goods, just not too picky about when.  What's the treat we are in for?  I'm assumin' it ain't milk 'n' cookies...

Sorry, never mind, I am being the dickhead now by carrying over bullshit from another thread, where the effects of material degradation were being dismissed.  Out of context snark not directed at you or Kyle D from this thread.  Carry on 

Mark Pilate - Forgiven, if needed. No offense taken, it was just confusing, one ocf those moments when I thought my train of thought had derailed again... and thank you for what was essentially an apology.  You just put the "civil" back into "civil discourse".