A Question on Beak Preferences.

Ryan Larocque wrote:

No but send me a message if you want some 

Hi Ryan, I messaged you about getting some of your beaks, but I'm not sure if it went through. Sorry for the double notification if it did go through

Kop de gas also makes beaks out of Catalunya.

http://www.kopdegas.com/productes/big-wall/kop-de-gas-artifo-ancores-beaks-2/?lang=en

And this French guy sells beaks here on IG/whatsapp

https://instagram.com/pecker_shop?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

John Middendorf wrote:

Does anyone have any Vermin hardware?  (Not John Sherman, rather a maker of fine steel tools named Vermin from the south).  He not only made the best big hooks, but also was making an awesome beak design as well In the 1990s.   

I’ve seen them mentioned in threads talking about hooks and/or beaks.  Seem very well regarded.  Hard to find much about anything Vermin.   Marty’s pictures showing the Vermin gear (along with the rest of the great aid climbing gear displayed in his collection.

Did he make a Meat Hook or was that another brand’s hook?

Do you have any examples of the Vermin products that you’ve held onto?  At what point did the Seam Weasel (or other Vermim beak) hit the market in relation to the A5 Adventures Bird Beak?  Were they available before or after Black Diamond released their Pecker to the market.  

After noting the swaged  loops on Kevin’s beaks in the photo of his new racking loops, I want to ask the for opinions on loop sizes.
Is there such thing as too small or a sweet spot around 2.5” to 3”? Or What? 

  I know it’s minutia, but why not Ask? 

The Muddyboots wrote:

  I know it’s minutia, but why not Ask? 

This whole game is Minutia!! 

I’d say the smallest loop you can sew, tie or swage.

Those fractions of an inch add up, it could be the difference in reaching the next placement or not.

Quinn Hatfield wrote:

This whole game is Minutia!! 

I know, right?  But we love every quanta of it!

Thanks for those comments.

Kevin, I agree with your comment on irritation and small loops. I have an inordinate amount of experience with nico-press tools due to my profession.I can make them down to about 1.25 diameter without insane effort, But at that size they behave a lot like solid rings.

I'm going to do some 2” diameter loops and see how I like those. 

Peter Zabrok wrote:

^^ Hey Mark, have you tried the Camp Iron Hawks?  Same size as the BD #1.  Better point, better bite, and they have a hole in the top through which you can tie a cleaning-racking loop.  I think the small BD #1 Peckers don't have a hole on top?  Or at least they didn't used to....

I just checked the CAMP website.  They no longer list the Iron Hawk.  

Kevin says the Birdbeaks are terrible.  Why?  I have never set one, this is pure curiousity.  I am going to assume difference is that the “stem” part hits the wall, where the BD/Tomahawk/ Iron Hawk shape gives more space for the beak to set before the stem contacts the rock.

Gerard De Lany wrote:

I just checked the CAMP website.  They no longer list the Iron Hawk.  

Kevin says the Birdbeaks are terrible.  Why?  I have never set one, this is pure curiousity.  I am going to assume difference is that the “stem” part hits the wall, where the BD/Tomahawk/ Iron Hawk shape gives more space for the beak to set before the stem contacts the rock.

The Iron Hawks are still available.  They discontinued them momentarily and then released them again with a different logo.  Try Backcountrygear.com. I think they have them in stock. 

Brian R,    Thanks, I will take a look at Backcountry's website.

Kevin,  Gotcha.  

Brian. Here is some beak history.  A5’s were the first to be produced in late 80s.  In mid 90s, Vermin and then later BD started making them.

https://www.bigwallgear.com/p/birdbeaks

https://www.bigwallgear.com/p/birdbeaks

The Vermin hardware was really well made.  I forget his actual name (Forrest?) but I recall talking to him when he was making gear and he knew his stuff.  From somewhere down South, I think.  He was 2nd USA beak maker, with some improvements compared to the tried and true A5 design, which had been around for several years before other producers.

John Middendorf wrote:

The Vermin hardware was really well made.  I forget his actual name (Forrest?) but I recall talking to him when he was making gear and he knew his stuff.  From somewhere down South, I think.  He was 2nd USA beak maker, with some improvements compared to the tried and true A5 design, which had been around for several years before other producers.

Hey John his name is Forest Gardner and he lives in Georgia. Absolute legend that not enough people know about. Established many of the south hardest aid lines as well as establishing many traditional free climbs up to 5.12. He is an absolute genius and quite the character to say the least. A southern wizard practicing redneck alchemy to this day. I have some of his pieces and they are amazing. Rumor has it he invented the duck bill bashie. He was way ahead of his time. His rurps are the best rurps I’ve ever used. I’d bet Bb Cc bought those hooks off Forest when he was in the valleys. Him and Todd Wells showed up back in the day and no one would even talk to them. They were outcasted as rednecks and not cool enough with their high and tight haircuts and blue jeans. Then when they came down off the captain all the valley locals were trying to butter their biscuits and buying Vermin gear off them. Forest and Todd are the real McCoys. 

Dylan Valvo wrote:

Hey John his name is Forest Gardner and he lives in Georgia. Absolute legend that not enough people know about. Established many of the south hardest aid lines as well as establishing many traditional free climbs up to 5.12. He is an absolute genius and quite the character to say the least. A southern wizard practicing redneck alchemy to this day. I have some of his pieces and they are amazing. Rumor has it he invented the duck bill bashie. He was way ahead of his time. His rurps are the best rurps I’ve ever used. I’d bet Bb Cc bought those hooks off Forest when he was in the valleys. Him and Todd Wells showed up back in the day and no one would even talk to them. They were outcasted as rednecks and not cool enough with their high and tight haircuts and blue jeans. Then when they came down off the captain all the valley locals were trying to butter their biscuits and buying Vermin gear off them. Forest and Todd are the real McCoys. 

Fantastic!  Yes, now I recall.  Forest Gardner.  Thanks for this, will add to my beak story page!  Good to keep reminding folks that there was some amazing stuff happening before the year 2000. :)

He just recently has been struggling with some serious health issues. If anyone is feeling generous and wants to help a homie out his old lady set up a go fund me thingy.

https://www.gofundme.com/f/25vmfk-help-forrest-gardner-climb-back-to-health?utm_campaign=p_cp+share-sheet&utm_content=undefined&utm_medium=email&utm_source=customer&utm_term=undefined

Good one.  Link here too:  https://gofund.me/00002055

John Middendorf wrote:

Brian. Here is some beak history.  A5’s were the first to be produced in late 80s.  In mid 90s, Vermin and then later BD started making them.

https://www.bigwallgear.com/p/birdbeaks

https://www.bigwallgear.com/p/birdbeaks

John I have some beak photos Ive been meaning to send to you, stuff you may or not have seen before that belonged to Jim B.  

Dylan Valvo wrote:

He just recently has been struggling with some serious health issues. If anyone is feeling generous and wants to help a homie out his old lady set up a go fund me thingy.

https://www.gofundme.com/f/25vmfk-help-forrest-gardner-climb-back-to-health?utm_campaign=p_cp+share-sheet&utm_content=undefined&utm_medium=email&utm_source=customer&utm_term=undefined

Dylan thank you for sharing, bummer about his situation.  As someone who also does not have health insurance I couldn't help but donate.  Cant imagine being in that position and I hope the best for him and his family.

Brian R wrote:

Dylan thank you for sharing, bummer about his situation.  As someone who also does not have health insurance I couldn't help but donate.  Cant imagine being in that position and I hope the best for him and his family.

Thanks Brian. That means a lot to Forrest and family.