A Question on Beak Preferences.

I was examining my aid gear and realized I have a really awesome wall rack…

for 1995.

the Closest thing I have to Beaks are cut off Crack-n-Ups. So, I’m going to buy some Beaks. I’m aware of who is making what, but I’m curious about what people like. BD, Moses, combinations, mixes? What are people liking? Usage is granite, East and West. Slinging and cabling are not an issue, since I can do it myself, or have Skot do it if I’m feeling super lazy.

I lay the question before the Cognoscenti! 

Moses Tomahawks.

Moses Theron Tomahawks are great peckers - they have far and away the best cables.  

The BD Peckers are great, too - but the cable is STILL under-engineered. They beefed it up a bit, but not enough.

The best #1 pecker by far is the Camp Iron Hawk.

Always remember to tie a burly racking-cleaning loop through the top hole of each pecker.  Get three different colours of webbing, then you can colour-code according to size. 

The BD beaks are as good as you’ll ever need. Their wires do suck though. Have Skot rewire them and sew webbing to their top holes. 

^^ Hey Mark, have you tried the Camp Iron Hawks?  Same size as the BD #1.  Better point, better bite, and they have a hole in the top through which you can tie a cleaning-racking loop.  I think the small BD #1 Peckers don't have a hole on top?  Or at least they didn't used to....

Pete, what makes the iron hawks better than the tomohawks?

Andrew,
I am not sure that Moses even makes a #1 Tomahawk?  Edit:  I looked on his website, and he does.  I guess I don't own any?  Maybe Theron should send me a few?  ;)  

Camp only makes their Iron Hawks in the #1 size, so I am comparing them to a #1 BD pecker.  They have a hole in the head for a cleaning-racking loop, and I like the shape better.  They seem to "bite" better than the #1 Pecker.  The blade is a shade longer, and a slightly different angle.  

We need good ol Ryan LaRoque to chime in here.  He gave me some of his #4 beaks, and they are FABULOUS!  Big beaks have already replaced 90% of my Lost Arrow placements, and if I get a few more of Ryan's #4's, I can get rid of my LA's pretty much for good.  

Peter Zabrok wrote:

Andrew,
I am not sure that Moses even makes a #1 Tomahawk?  Edit:  I looked on his website, and he does.  I guess I don't own any?  Maybe Theron should send me a few?  ;)  

Camp only makes their Iron Hawks in the #1 size, so I am comparing them to a #1 BD pecker.  They have a hole in the head for a cleaning-racking loop, and I like the shape better.  They seem to "bite" better than the #1 Pecker.  The blade is a shade longer, and a slightly different angle.  

We need good ol Ryan LaRoque to chime in here.  He gave me some of his #4 beaks, and they are FABULOUS!  Big beaks have already replaced 90% of my Lost Arrow placements, and if I get a few more of Ryan's #4's, I can get rid of my LA's pretty much for good.  

I really like the Iron Hawks as well. The wider, less fragile tip is nice and they are very durable compared to the small Peckers.   It seems like it would be a no brainer for Cassin (or CAMP?) to scale up the design for some larger sizes.  They would be a nice complement to a rack of Tomahawks.  There aren't many (Western) European climbing companies that offer beaks.  Just Cassin/CAMP and KopaDeGas who offers a few different types. 

 Could you post a picture of the #4 beaks?  Im interested to see what the are shaped like and how much larger they are than a #3 (Tomahawk or Pecker).  How's the weight?

Hey Brian,

Here are a couple of photos of Ryan LaRoque's #4 beaks in actions. He has drilled them out, and they are not really that heavy at all! They bite where nothing else will, and I verily believe they will replace most of the remaining Lost Arrow placements you can't make with #2 and #3 peckers. Click on the image to see it full res.

Incidentally, my partner and I are still looking for an experienced third to join us starting September 15.  These big wall nailup projects take about two weeks from start to finish, including schlepping and fixing, climbing and repairing hardware, and descent.  Message me if you have the time and experience. If you don't have a couple weeks available the last two weeks of September, at least come by the evening of Tuesday September 14th for a big bash at the bear boxes!  It's gonna be a real RIPPER!  Bring your favourite beer or wine.  There might even be some margaritas, with salted rim, of course.

And if you want to learn stuff, we can always use help. Bring along your jugs and aiders and adjustable daisies and come join us fixing pitches on El Cap. Beers will be involved. There is no better way to learn the tricks on how to climb big walls than to do so while actually climbing a big wall. See how all the systems get put together, and then see them in use. You even get the Dr. Piton guarantee: you will learn enough stuff now that will later save you enough time, money and heartache to completely underwrite the energy expended. Message me if you're interested. I think we've got three or four guys coming out to learn stuff so far.

Cheers, eh?

P.S. I'll send this link to Ryan LaRoque. 

The drill out pattern on the red beak looks awfully familiar…

That red one isn't one of mine, looks like a drilled out 3.   Il have a new design #4 soon.  Il post a photo when they're done 

Do you have a website where you sell these?

Peter Zabrok wrote:

Andrew,
I am not sure that Moses even makes a #1 Tomahawk?  Edit:  I looked on his website, and he does.  I guess I don't own any?  Maybe Theron should send me a few?  ;)  

Camp only makes their Iron Hawks in the #1 size, so I am comparing them to a #1 BD pecker.  They have a hole in the head for a cleaning-racking loop, and I like the shape better.  They seem to "bite" better than the #1 Pecker.  The blade is a shade longer, and a slightly different angle.  

We need good ol Ryan LaRoque to chime in here.  He gave me some of his #4 beaks, and they are FABULOUS!  Big beaks have already replaced 90% of my Lost Arrow placements, and if I get a few more of Ryan's #4's, I can get rid of my LA's pretty much for good.  

Hey Pete how do the #4’s compare to the DMM Bulldogs and terrier’s?   I find their thickness is a decent replacement for arrows. 

Hmmm. The DMM Terrier looks pretty cool. Hadn't seen that before. 

Ptpp pretty much got it right on the mark up thread

Bdel Peckers are the workhorse providing you're able to reswage them to full strength or pay for someone else to do it. They are slightly shorter than the Moses Tomahawks so you get a bit higher and lighter than Tomahawks. 

Moses Tomahawks are amazing and generally better than bdel peckers  (especially in corners if you're using the corner (left or right) versions - but be aware that if you choose to bring left and right version they will not work effectively in the opposite corner for what they're made for) . They come with full strength clip in cables so no need to reswage them until after a few walls. Their issue comes in their weight. If you're using less than 3ea of the three sizes on a wall it's not much of an issue but once you get into the larger beak racks the difference between peckers and tomahawks becomes significant. Especially in the #3 size.

Ptpp is correct about the Camp iron hawk. One of my fav little beaks. Not exactly a #1, more in tween a 1 and a 2 (closer to the 1) I always have a couple with me. Their issues are that you will need to swage them with a clip in loop or pay someone to do it for you (you can use webbing but it's bulky and becomes mangled over the course of a wall). Another issue is that if you're doing a route that really redlining what a #1 beak can do, the Iron hawk simply cannot perform as well in beak tip placements as a #1 bdel pecker or Moses tomahawk can. 

Pika beaks are crap. The toucan is cool if you're in the mud but not really valuable on granite walls. 

Krokonogi beaks are next level but definitely niche pieces: they have too many variations to list but their thicker versions can work better than arrows in arrow scars and a easier to clean. I wouldnt start out with these but def take a look at them if you find yourself deep in the underbelly of the beakverse 

Old A5 beaks are crap but great to mount under glass and display on your wall at home. 

Huh. I never noticed the weight difference between Moses and BD.  

I have one or two Krukonogi beaks that Fabio gave-ah me when I come-ah see him inna Italia, where the pizza and gelato really IS better. I like 'em, but good luck finding 'em now as they're from Russia.  Those and I reckon anything titanium. 

Dudes... I think Krukonogi is DEAD (And I don't feel so good myself....)

It is the tribal wisdom and collective knowledge of the Beakverse that I was hoping to unearth. I've also moved my Specters out of my "New England Ice frozen mud pro" box, into my "really big hooks" box. Although, maybe I should take them to work to use on a couple of Loose Flakes there…

Thank you all for the info! 

Ty Kom wrote:

Do you have a website where you sell these?

No but send me a message if you want some 

Andrew O'Brien wrote:

Hey Pete how do the #4’s compare to the DMM Bulldogs and terrier’s?   I find their thickness is a decent replacement for arrows. 

The #4s are 1/4" thick.  Can't remember but I think they are similar thickness.  The difference is the 4's have a tapered blade whereas the dmm have a straight blade, the ones I used to own did anyways unless they've changed. 

Does anyone have any Vermin hardware?  (Not John Sherman, rather a maker of fine steel tools named Vermin from the south).  He not only made the best big hooks, but also was making an awesome beak design as well In the 1990s.