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What is it REALLY like living in the Boulder bubble?

Original Post
David Jefferson · · Christchurch, NZ · Joined Mar 2011 · Points: 20

Much to the chagrin of those who will probably tell me that the Front Range is full, I am considering a potential job opportunity in Boulder. I am American but have lived outside of the US for nearly a decade, currently in Aotearoa New Zealand. I would be relocating with my partner and our <1 year old baby, and we would want to buy a house and have access to non-dirtbag amenities such as childcare and schools, in addition to climbing access. Our outdoor priorities are hard sport climbing, long alpine routes/scrambles, skiing/snowboarding, and MTB.

MP forums and the interwebs suggest that the Boulder bubble is becoming untenable due to overcrowding, exorbitant housing prices, wildfires, etc. How much of this is hyperbole, and how much should be believed? We lived near Sacramento for several years before moving overseas, so we are not strangers to crowds, high prices, or smoke. Are things as bad as people say they are? If you had the chance to move to Boulder now, would you do it? 

I'd also be interested in tips about baby/family friendly crags in the Front Range. Cheers!

Beta Slave · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2022 · Points: 0

I only visit to work on people's homes. And generalizations suck. But there is a weird, snobby, kind of hostile vibe developing up there. And I would attribute that to the high number of lawyers and newly tech wealthy who've become cynical from being approached by scammers on the regular. 

Of course, most of the population are normal people. But it's always the assholes who stand out and leave impressions. 

This could also be because my clients tend towards being wealthy too. 

Long Ranger · · Boulder, CO · Joined Jan 2014 · Points: 669

Compared to New Zealand, Boulder is a very unfriendly place. Shockingly so.

If your finances allow it, sounds like Boulder would be good fit for you. I assume you've looked at housing prices, etc.

Doug Haller · · Boulder, CO · Joined Jun 2005 · Points: 602
David Jefferson wrote:

Much to the chagrin of those who will probably tell me that the Front Range is full, I am considering a potential job opportunity in Boulder. I am American but have lived outside of the US for nearly a decade, currently in Aotearoa New Zealand. I would be relocating with my partner and our <1 year old baby, and we would want to buy a house and have access to non-dirtbag amenities such as childcare and schools, in addition to climbing access. Our outdoor priorities are hard sport climbing, long alpine routes/scrambles, skiing/snowboarding, and MTB.

MP forums and the interwebs suggest that the Boulder bubble is becoming untenable due to overcrowding, exorbitant housing prices, wildfires, etc. How much of this is hyperbole, and how much should be believed? We lived near Sacramento for several years before moving overseas, so we are not strangers to crowds, high prices, or smoke. Are things as bad as people say they are? If you had the chance to move to Boulder now, would you do it? 

I'd also be interested in tips about baby/family friendly crags in the Front Range. Cheers!

Consider the area as expensive as SF, LA, NYC without the cultural benefits or the diversity. The trade off is the view, which you may have access to if you can get out during non-peak hours. Pay is not commensurate with cost of living as the view is considered compensation. The "bubble" is a local term for well-educated and high income which could be said for many of the suburbs around cities on either coast and a few university towns dotted across the area between.

Patrik · · Third rock from Sun · Joined Jun 2010 · Points: 30
David Jefferson wrote:

Our outdoor priorities are hard sport climbing, long alpine routes/scrambles, skiing/snowboarding, and MTB.

I'd also be interested in tips about baby/family friendly crags in the Front Range. Cheers!

1) Climbing: It is not called "Chossorado" for no reason. 

2) Skiing/boarding: Who the hell builds a highway that is mostly two lanes right next to a metro area with 3 million people? (Speaking of I-70 taking you to ski areas)  

3) Babies: Babies at crags will either be run over by "free range dogs", trundled down steep/loose terrain, or used as target practice for choss/dropped gear etc. Make sure to send the kiddo to a self defense class for protection against all the rattlers.

Jonathan Lagoe · · Boulder · Joined Aug 2011 · Points: 5

It's mostly hyperbole except for the cost of housing..

You might consider Louisville (I live here). Nice town - and housing is more affordable than Boulder. It's only 15 minutes to Flatirons trailheads and closer to Eldo than many parts of Boulder. Proper small walkable downtown with restaurants and bars. Definitely less of a cool vibe than Boulder, but more family friendly I would say.

The traffic in Boulder County is nothing like the Bay area, NYC or LA - makes me laugh when people complain about it. Wildfires are a thing across the West, but then Christchurch has earthquakes..

All the things you are interested in doing are well accessible, you can day-trip long alpine routes for example, unlike NZ -  but you do need to be smart to avoid weekend crowds. From friends in Christchurch, Wanaka and Queenstown, I would say the outdoor opportunities - especially hard sport climbing, are better here, but maybe Christchurch is a nicer environment overall - after all you have the ocean.

Other places to consider for more reasonable housing costs are Lafayette, Broomfield, Gunbarrel and points East.

12 years now here after moving from the UK. No regrets at all.

 

David Jefferson · · Christchurch, NZ · Joined Mar 2011 · Points: 20

Thanks for the responses so far, and I especially appreciate Jonathan’s perspective as someone moving to the area from overseas. It’s a good point about CHCH and earthquakes. Fortunately, they don’t happen every year like wildfires, but when they do they can be pretty bloody destructive.

The idea of doing day trips to alpine objectives definitely appeals to me. I can do a bit of that now (Arthur’s Pass is 1.5-2 hours away) but I imagine there is a lot more, a lot closer to Boulder.

Having the ocean a 5-10 minute drive from where I live now is nice, but I don’t know if I’d really miss it. The water on the South Island is too cold for me to muster much stoke for surfing.

I’ll definitely have a look at Louisville and the other towns Jonathan mentioned for housing. My uncle lives in Superior and he seems to like it. 

David Jefferson · · Christchurch, NZ · Joined Mar 2011 · Points: 20
Long Ranger wrote:

Compared to New Zealand, Boulder is a very unfriendly place. Shockingly so.

If your finances allow it, sounds like Boulder would be good fit for you. I assume you've looked at housing prices, etc.

I’m a bit surprised to hear that you think Boulder is an unfriendly place. Can you elaborate a bit? Is it that people are directly rude, or more of a passive aggressiveness like some parts of CA? Is it situational or a general vibe?

N - · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 0
David Jefferson wrote:

I’m a bit surprised to hear that you think Boulder is an unfriendly place. Can you elaborate a bit? Is it that people are directly rude, or more of a passive aggressiveness like some parts of CA? Is it situational or a general vibe?

I've lived on the east coast, west coast and overseas and would describe a disproportionally large contingent of the boulder crowd as disingenuous, unfriendly and having superior than thou attitude both in gyms (some worse than others) and outdoors. It's not everyone but it's plenty of folks that are likely this way after a lifetime of privilege. There's plenty of great folks too. Just be ready to come across a higher percentage of entitled brats than anywhere. 

Accessibility to pretty good climbing (all year) and snow sports is hard to beat. 

If I were single, I would seriously consider all of my options before moving to the area. Being married, I think what's more important is seeing if you can afford to live in the area and if you have a good paying job, then I think it's hard to beat. 

Cheiftan Mews · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2020 · Points: 0

I have never dealt with such self-centered people in my life as I have in Boulder. Lots of people walk around like they are God's gift to man. Most of the climbing community is cool. though. 

Lots of positives and negatives. I've spent a lot of time thinking about this over the past few years and I've boiled it down to this: If you have money and weekdays off, it's worth it. 

Long Ranger · · Boulder, CO · Joined Jan 2014 · Points: 669
David Jefferson wrote:

I’m a bit surprised to hear that you think Boulder is an unfriendly place. Can you elaborate a bit? Is it that people are directly rude, or more of a passive aggressiveness like some parts of CA? Is it situational or a general vibe?

I would rate NZ as one of the most friendliest, English-speaking countries I have had the privilege of visiting. I would be curious to see if there's any culture shock after coming back to the States. 

It's hard sometimes to find a sense of community here in Boulder, and dipping my littlest toe in local politics (purely as a spectator) there feels a lack of compassion when it comes to discussing and trying to solve the various issues that really befall any small city. Change comes slowly as an overall policy.

The marketing (I don't know what other word to use) would you have to believe that Boulder is the happiest city to live in, or the healthiest, but the mechanism towards this isn't inclusivity. 

Tim Stich · · Colorado Springs, Colorado · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 1,516

Well, let me describe a girl I know that lives in Boulder and has a nice, huge house there. She also is a rabid Tai Chi adherent, and would not skip her Saturday sesh to go climbing earlier. She also had a large, if pretty well behaved dog. One day we took the dog hiking from the NCAR entrance, which is one of the popular entrances to the Flatirons due to the huge parking lot. This girl, despite all of the the New Age navel gazing, clearly hates people. And so, on the trail we meet some people who approach us and ask where the Mesa Trail is. I vaguely remember the direction and point they that way, but I noticed my friend has gone away with the dog, clearly annoyed that someone talked to us. Later, she complained about the conversation.

I think this is a pretty common archetype in Boulder. New Age beliefs, but underlying misanthropy. That incongruous personality of course amuses me to no end. 

Dane B · · Chuff City · Joined Oct 2014 · Points: 5

Nicest place I have ever lived and probably will ever live, but also one of the most pretentious, uptight, and boring places outside of the amazing outdoor access. 

ErikaNW · · Golden, CO · Joined Sep 2010 · Points: 410

Boulder: the place where you are being silently (or not so silently) judged by everyone you meet.

My take is everyone wants to be there for similar reasons - access to the outdoors, lifestyle, etc… but is also highly resentful of everyone else for being there too. Tim’s story made me laugh. I’ve never encountered so many unfriendly people as on the trails around Boulder - I think it is because there are just so many people. Friendly eye contact, smiles, greetings on trails are usually greeted with stony silence (my experience). I find people to be pretty friendly at climbing areas. I’m super introverted so it’s not like I’m out talking to people or getting in their face, but I do tend to say hello or good morning or whatever when I approach someone on a trail. 

Get ready for Boulder-centric direction giving too - if you’re asking how to get somewhere, the assumption is that you know all the local landmarks etc. Can be kind of frustrating. There are plenty of trailheads where parking is free with Boulder plates and fee for non-residents. That irritates me since our trailheads in JeffCo are free for everyone. Just an example of not being welcoming to outsiders (I’m sure Boulder taxes are higher and that’s the rationale).

I live 15 minutes outside of Boulder in north Golden (I like to call it NoGo - in accordance with south Boulder being SoBo). I enjoy visiting Boulder occasionally, but I’d never want to live there. It feels crowded, traffic is a pain, seems like there is a lot of posing/posturing. On the upside, I think it might be a decent place to be car free so dealing with traffic might be more of a non-local thing, there are really great restaurants, and of course access to outdoors (but that’s true for a lot of other areas outside of Boulder proper).

Everywhere in the front range is expensive right now, but Boulder is extra pricey.

Tim Stich · · Colorado Springs, Colorado · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 1,516
ErikaNW wrote:

Boulder: the place where you are being silently (or not so silently) judged by everyone you meet.

My take is everyone wants to be there for similar reasons - access to the outdoors, lifestyle, etc… but is also highly resentful of everyone else for being there too. Tim’s story made me laugh. I’ve never encountered so many unfriendly people as on the trails around Boulder...

I went through a period where I was also resentful of people showing up at my "secret" crags and what have you, but then I would go to Table Mountain on a Saturday and just fit myself into the chaos. Same with Shelf Road trips, I would just find a route to climb and be content with that until we were done and needed another line. I began to let go of the resentment and just started being friendly to my neighbors. Same with hiking in popular areas. Now I generally just don't even like to say hello, but in crowded places like the Flatirons I know it will be more enjoyable if I just get over myself and adjust. And you know what, you can do it! You can actually change your shitty experience into a pretty decent outing. If you really can't do that, drive a little further and bushwhack up your private game trail and your problem is solved.

F r i t z · · (Currently on hiatus, new b… · Joined Mar 2012 · Points: 1,155
Cocoapuffs 1000 wrote:

  Aggressively aloof is how I would describe it.

This description is money.

"I'm not paying attention to you. Do you see me on my way to Crossfit from the vegan grocery not paying attention to you? HEY! I'm right over here, jackass, NOT GIVING AN EQUAL-OPPORTUNITY FREE-RANGE GRASS-FED FUCK ABOUT YOUR EXISTENCE!!!1!11!!"

mark felber · · Wheat Ridge, CO · Joined Jul 2005 · Points: 41
ErikaNW wrote:

 There are plenty of trailheads where parking is free with Boulder plates and fee for non-residents. That irritates me since our trailheads in JeffCo are free for everyone. Just an example of not being welcoming to outsiders (I’m sure Boulder taxes are higher and that’s the rationale).

AIUI, OSMP land is maintained mostly with City of Boulder sales tax revenue, so there is some justification for asking non-residents to pay a few bucks. I don't like paying to use public lands, whether it's state parks, NPS land or City of Boulder land. I do recognize that maintaining all that open space in good shape costs money, so I suck it up and pay the fees. $25/year isn't a whole lot for the time I spend running, hiking and climbing on OSMP land.

HughC · · Fort Collins, CO · Joined Jul 2015 · Points: 60

Boulder is a funny place.  After going to school there, climbing in and around the town, meeting many folks over last two decades, I have found it lives up to its hyperbolic reputation in many ways. But that being said,  I have found great people and climbing partners who are down to earth and caring. I personally love the climbing as I am a Chossineer though and through - but I assiduously avoid climbing in BOCO,  Eldo,  the flatties, etc on weekends. Too many fucking people ( Shakes fist at sky.). However, canyons are all yours on weekdays! Access to alpine in the park is amazing too.

Mark E Dixon · · Possunt, nec posse videntur · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 984

Housing- expensive

Child care- don't know. Preschool options were excellent 18 years ago when we were looking.

Public schools generally excellent, expensive private schools available.

Hard sport climbing- good local crags, the Flatirons in particular, have potential to be world class, but that probably won't happen due to bolting restrictions. Rifle is an easy weekend trip. 

But if your ticks are up to date, you would be looking at more of the 5.10 range, which can be relatively busy but is also pretty well represented locally.

Baby friendly crags- there are some, but honestly, you'd be better off joining with like minded parents and taking turns climbing outside.

Alpine routes/scrambles- plenty around for day trips. Not Sierra quality, but pretty good.

Skiing- good skiing. Not Utah quality, but fun. Eldora is the local area, ok tree skiing, not much steep. I70 resorts offer more, but dealing with I70 on the weekends is nearly unbearable, 2 hour trips becoming 6-7 due to traffic. I don't know about backcountry- but seems like lots of participants.

MTB- can't really say. My impression is that Boulder isn't especially mtb friendly.

Fires/smoke- we have had mild smoke a few times in the last couple of years- not a big deal so far.

Fire risk exists (see Marshall fire!) but unless you live in the country I don't think most people pay it much mind, even if they should.

"Boulder attitude"- if you care deeply that strangers may judge you or snub you on the trail, I just don't know what to say. HTFU?

There is plenty of privilege, much of which is unrecognized by those who have it, but I think outright malice is rare.

The proportion of outdoor enthusiasts is unrivaled. This is bad if you must work weekdays and only get out on weekends. 

This is good since it means you can find partners and friends for any adventure you care to hazard.


wendy weiss · · boulder, co · Joined Mar 2006 · Points: 10
ErikaNW wrote:

Boulder: the place where you are being silently (or not so silently) judged by everyone you meet.

Hey, Erika, I'm not judging you. Will meet for coffee, lunch, or a marg any time.   

Boulder has changed a lot in the 46 years I've lived here, and not for the better. It's lost its small college town funkiness and become much more upscale, though it was always comparatively expensive. I find the people (climbers and otherwise) to be mostly friendly and maybe making a bigger effort to smile and say hi since the plague hit. My current pet peeve is the city planners whose self-righteous hostility to cars keeps making the traffic situation worse.     

HughC · · Fort Collins, CO · Joined Jul 2015 · Points: 60

Oh and the potholes - what in the actual fuck happens to money ear marked for roads in Boulder is a mystery to me. All that tax base and yet potholes that will swallow small children and screw up your alignment.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Colorado
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