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Is bounce testing a total waste of time?
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Disclaimer. I have only done one real aid climb but have put in hundreds of hours on the sharp end of ground up Fa's that involved aid climbing to get up the route and then start the work of free climbing the aided sections. Its my thought that we all know what good gear is and what crap gear is so what's the point of a bounce other than to set a stopper? If I bounce and it fails I fall on to my previous piece, if I move up and it fails its almost the same thing. I know I have successfully moved up on many pieces that would have failed a bounce test. I knew that before I weighted them but upward progress was made in most cases with dramatic downward progress the result of some of those attempts. One time without the benefit of a bounce test Isa said. "That pin won't hold" It didn't ;) point being that she could tell from the belay that it was junk, I knew it was junk but there was a slight chance it would get me to a better placement so I chose to go for it with a predictable result. Had the pin been good it would have been just as obvious and bouncing would have been a total waste of time. My point being if we know it's good just move up, if we think it might hold and the fall is clean just move up. if we know its junk and the fall sucks find better gear or drill baby drill. One time Isa and I were on the Prow (east coast version) stuck behind a person with 4 ladders bounce testing every single piece on a 60ft C1 pitch. After 2hrs of freezing and no end in sight we bailed. We came back another day and did the same pitch in 15 min. Do any of the cool kids bounce test? |
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Well I am not a cool kid and definitely don't have the huge mileage that some people do but I have climbed 6 routes on El Cap and I bounce test. If you practice it a lot you can get good enough to just transfer your weight back to the previous aider if the bounce test fails on the light/medium testing. I find this invaluable as it eliminates a fall (saves time) and gives you much more confidence in your placement. But I will say that I don't bounce test bomber cams on C1/2 terrain. My rule is that if I look at it and I would be fine free climbing above the piece and whipping, then I don't bounce it. But for weird cams in pin scars, flared placements, 2 lobed cams, nuts, sketchy pin/peaks, and various other mank I think it is important. Oh I will add that IMHO it is not a good idea to give a hard bounce test on copperheads as those are generally a body weight placement only.....I do the standard light then medium bounce with 1 foot and then just commit. |
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Recently picked up something from a very friendly fella, and that is yelling at the piece to get out of the crack while bouncing agressively. Never felt so confident in a piece. That said I don’t bounce test often, and if I do it’s because I’m probably just scared and shitting my pants. Also I’m not a cool kid |
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that sounds almost more like setting a free climbing piece than a full blown bounce test? I know of many times i was able to move up on a hook that would not have survived a real bounce. It does sound like we are in agreement that we know what good gear is so if its good just move up. |
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The way you bounce a piece- you’re generally pretty stable on the previous piece- so if the bounce piece fails you don’t actually shock load the piece you’re on… While I think your logic would probably be fine for the occasional “bad” piece in an otherwise solid pitch of gear.. for long stretches of harder placements most of us are going to want the security of knowing that not only will the piece we are about to step on hold our bodyweight- but that the previous ones held more than bodyweight and might hold a small fall.. as Marlin said above- most of the time you probably aren’t Bouncing pieces.. there are a few ways to get yer bounce on- from kicking down in the aider, with all you mass solidly on the previous piece, to easing on and then bouncing with all your weight, risking the fall- but confirming it’ll hold a fall if it passes. You can also get super low on the previous piece and daisy bounce- generating big force with almost no shock loading to the previous piece.. |
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Ha! I am usually working on what will be a free climbing pitch so if the gear really sucks and the distance is right I fire in another bolt ;) I certainly don't see the point in bouncing on a piece that you can't change the outcome of. Hook moves I just ease on to them and hope they hold. I already placed the hook in the best possible spot so if i plan on going up I should just go up. Manky fixed gear that you don't have the means to change I think would also fall into the category of move up gently trying not to ruin the placement. I certainly do test stuff by easing on while still solidly on my current piece or giving a stomp on the new aider but only daisy chain bounce rappel anchors. Mainly ice climbing anchors and tat on trees I clip the anchor with draw to my belay loop and bounce like hell before removing the back up. I feel that kind of test might just destroy a marginal placement that would have been fine for upward progress. |
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Quinn gets it… Marlin pretty much gets it… you other guys, not at all. Bounce testing is essential on hard aid. Hard aid is not something that will go free later at 5.9. You might be aiding it, but it’s a joke. Real aid climbing is something completely out of your experience range. And yeah, bounce testing copperheads and fixed mank is how to have a long career. |
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Russ mannnn I did disclaimer that I’m not a cool kid so of course I don’t get it |
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Russ , you guys should not be so damn shy about drilling ;) heck your already chiseling and drilling bathooks. Fire in a bolt every now and then fer Christ's sake ;) |
Nick Goldsmith wrote: ROFLMFAO... Keep this thread bouncing... |
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We used to call the alternative, the “ease onto it“ method. Once you get about five dicey pieces out with the EOI method, with no good pro in sight, you will know the answer to your question! |
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If you don’t bounce test a beak or a pin, you never know if it’s going to suddenly pull. If you bounce test it, at least you know it can hold that weight. |
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When you fall from a lock and start a zipper, in your head it will only sound... why not try the locks?. |
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Mark. All these years and you don't know what a good pin sounds like? Russ, Didn't I just read a really gripping tale you wrote where you took a huge fall when your partner told you to bounce test a piece? I think there was something about a power bar hidden in his butt crack as well ;) John, I would have drilled after 3 body weight pieces ;) |
Nick Goldsmith wrote: Nope. As an avid bounce tester I have taken ZERO aid falls on Walls due to pro pulling. I've never fallen further than my daisy and the only one I recall was when a flake came off the wall while hooking. |
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You sure there is not something like that in the story you recently posted about that epic? it was a great and gripping story but I thought there was a passage where you were just about to step on to a piece and your partner told you to test it and it blew? I have been laid up w/ covid and read a lot of books the last week so perhaps its from something else? |
Nick Goldsmith wrote: bro, not me. Go back to bed. |
Nick Goldsmith wrote: Resident pins are silent. Tapping them with a hammer or biner really doesn't tell you anything about their holding power. |
Nick Goldsmith wrote: There are different levels of pin placements as well as beak placements. |
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of course we all know that you did however make a blanket statement that you don't know how good a pin is unless you bounce test it... |
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Bounce-testing good stoppers is an excellent way to waste a bunch of your follower’s time. |
