Sportiva Kaptivas?

I've looking for a trail runner/approach shoe similar to the Scarpa Rapid, but I got scared away by some of the durability issues I'm seeing in reviews.  Thoughts on the Sportiva Kaptiva?  They have sticky rubber, though they don't have much of a "climbing zone" (which is to say a lug-less area near the toe). That said, I'd probably not do any proper climbing with them save for scrambling on approaches and descents.  Thanks!

Meh. Not necessarily a bad shoe, but didn't work for me. I bought it when what I wanted wasn't available, and made them work for a while. I too was attracted by the good rubber. They are far too stiff for me to enjoy running in them, and have too much drop for me as well. The toe box is wide, much wider than any other Sportivas. Great for toe splay, but the shape didn't work great on my feet. I wouldn't say I had any durability issues though. I won't buy another pair, but I'd recommend them if they fit your feet and your needs.

I have kaptivas and have really enjoyed them. I wore them for a 50k and have used them for approaching the hulk and other Sierra stuff. Very durable. I don't really run in them anymore, switched to lighter, flatter shoes and I wouldn't want to climb anything 5th class in them, but they're great for talus, etc. 

They don’t have sticky rubber. Mutants might be closer to what you are looking for, but there is no climbing zone and the rubber still isn’t as sticky as an approach shoe. 

It is (or was), unfortunately, the stickiest of the Sportiva running shoes. Wish we could still get Helios SR in the US

Kaptivas have the same rubber as the Mutant, as does the Ultra Raptor (FriXion XF aka FriXion White, depending on the vintage - it's just a change in marketing). Difference may be lug shape, and if so, the Ultra Raptor would most likely feel stickier. Kaptivas also have less cush, so perhaps feel a little more sensitive than the Mutant. Helios SR using FriXion XT, which is a dual density rubber, and is used on shoes like the Bushido and Akasha. Just means there's a mix of rubber, usually Frixion White on most of it and a more longer lasting rubber in high wear areas.

For sticky sticky, it starts with Vibram rubbers like Megagrip.

Long Ranger wrote:

Kaptivas have the same rubber as the Mutant, as does the Ultra Raptor (FriXion XF aka FriXion White, depending on the vintage - it's just a change in marketing). Difference may be lug shape, and if so, the Ultra Raptor would most likely feel stickier. Kaptivas also have less cush, so perhaps feel a little more sensitive than the Mutant. Helios SR using FriXion XT, which is a dual density rubber, and is used on shoes like the Bushido and Akasha. Just means there's a mix of rubber, usually Frixion White on most of it and a more longer lasting rubber in high wear areas.

For sticky sticky, it starts with Vibram rubbers like Megagrip.

So Vibram Megagrip>FriXion White on the stickiness scale?

I found the Kaptiva outsole to be very sticky.  As Long Ranger pointed out, it is the same rubber as the Mutant.  Once the lugs wear down a bit, I find they climb extremely well, up to low/mid fifth.  Compared to Bushidos, I find the Kaptiva's climb way way better.  In fact I find the bushidos to be really sketchy on fifth class terrain. The dual density rubber is terrible for scrambling imho.

Overall the Kaptiva's are sweet for running and scrambling.  

I too would love to know which is better, sportiva frixion white or megagrip?  Also are there different versions of megagrip?  For instance is it the same rubber on a hoka speedgoat 5 as on a sportiva tx 2?  My TX2's feel way stickier.

Intriguing. Any further comments on fit and feel vs. the Mutants? I generally like the Mutants but the toebox is a bit narrow for me. Kaptiva a better option for wider toebox, perhaps?

El Duderino wrote:

So Vibram Megagrip>FriXion White on the stickiness scale?

Yes, very much so. Megagrip is what you'll find on the previous gen TX2's and 3's for example. It's harder/less sticky than what you find on most climbing shoes tho. 

JCM wrote:

Intriguing. Any further comments on fit and feel vs. the Mutants? I generally like the Mutants but the toebox is a bit narrow for me. Kaptiva a better option for wider toebox, perhaps?

Kaptiva feels like the Mutants younger bro. Same rubber on the bottom, but the lugs are much lower profile, the mid has a less stack height, and the upper is much more minimal (and more traditional with the tongue/lacing). I like them, but it was really apparent when the midsole was crushed out - they really would hurt my ankles on the techy trails we have around here. They really had this feeling of almost almost the old style New Balance less extreme trail Minimus's, except there is a bit more midsole as well as having more than a 0 drop (but only 6mm, which is pretty low). For comparison: 

Weight: Mutant: 10.70 oz, Kaptiva: 9.0 oz
Stack: Mutant: 16mm, Kaptiva: 11mm
Drop: Mutant: 10mm, Kaptiva 6mm

They're not made on the same last; The Mutant is supposedly on a Race/Medium last, and the Mutant on a Tempo 2 Ergo Medium/Wide last, but I fit into both fine. There are people in town that resole their Kaptivas in Megagrip/Dot Rubber (or similar) to scramble in them. They're edge like shit but in the flatirons, you don't need that. 

Bushidos are terrifying for actual rubber to rock scrambling/climbing. Personally, because I am a chicken, I wouldn’t trust any manufacturer’s “sticky rubber” outsole for a situation where falling had serious consequences. I have resoled  a couple of shoes (ultra raptors and TX2s) with real climbing rubber in the front with good results. But stock outsoles in sketch situations? Not going there. 

In my experience, megagrip is the the best non-climbing rubber. I ordered a couple sizes of the Rapids last year when they showed up on backcountry. They looked like the shoe for trail running/fast packing/approaches. Unfortunately for me, the heel collar came up far too high on the achilles, like almost a full inch too high. Tried them for a bit but ended up returning them. I’ve since tried the Scarpa Spin Ultra and Spin 2.0. Neither had the heel issue, but the Ultra was stiff and heavy, and I had difficultly getting good midfoot lockdown with both (on downhills foot slid right to the front). I would recommend trying the Spin 2.0s though- it could be a good fit for you, and they’re light and nimble.

I’m on bushidos now, and they seem like almost the perfect shoe for me, fit and ride. But I agree with Peter that the rubber is fairly shit on smooth rock. Not sure why Sportiva doesn’t make trail runners with megagrip.. their lug patterns are excellent, but the FriXion rubber isn’t that great IMO 

Long Ranger wrote:

Yes, very much so. Megagrip is what you'll find on the previous gen TX2's and 3's for example. It's harder/less sticky than what you find on most climbing shoes tho. 

What about durability of the Frixion vs the Megagrip?  I'd like these to go from door to trail, and that involves some pavement in the interim.  I also imagine the size/pattern of the lugs informs its scrambling ability, which is why the shorter lugs of the Kaptiva appealed to me as opposed to the toothy Mutants which don't offer much in the way of contact area until the lugs get worn down...

El Duderino wrote:

What about durability of the Frixion vs the Megagrip?  I'd like these to go from door to trail, and that involves some pavement in the interim.  I also imagine the size/pattern of the lugs informs its scrambling ability, which is why the shorter lugs of the Kaptiva appealed to me as opposed to the toothy Mutants which don't offer much in the way of contact area until the lugs get worn down...

I have found mega grip to be more durable than frixion white.  Here is a photo of two pairs of Kaptiva's I have.  The one on the left is brand new, the one on the right has 229km on them.  I use these exclusively for mountain runs, mostly on rock and scree, in the Rockies. Right now the shoes on the right scramble and smear really nicely but are starting to get slippery on loose descents dues to the much shortened lugs.  My daily trainers use megagrip rubber and seem to last way longer.

El Duderino wrote:

What about durability of the Frixion vs the Megagrip? 

I can only speculate, as there's no comparison I can find that measures the durability of the two families of rubbers. Obviously there's more to it than grip vs durability in any of these formulas. I would love to ask the Italian designers why no sticky Vibram rubber in their trail runners. I would have thought the Cyklon would have been a great test bed for new ideas like that.

Long Ranger wrote:

I can only speculate, as there's no comparison I can find that measures the durability of the two families of rubbers. Obviously there's more to it than grip vs durability in any of these formulas. I would love to ask the Italian designers why no sticky Vibram rubber in their trail runners. I would have thought the Cyklon would have been a great test bed for new ideas like that.

Re: durability, I am fine with a lot more security and a little less durability so yeah get some real rubber on those trail runners 

Long Ranger wrote:

Kaptivas have the same rubber as the Mutant, as does the Ultra Raptor (FriXion XF aka FriXion White, depending on the vintage - it's just a change in marketing). Difference may be lug shape, and if so, the Ultra Raptor would most likely feel stickier. Kaptivas also have less cush, so perhaps feel a little more sensitive than the Mutant. Helios SR using FriXion XT, which is a dual density rubber, and is used on shoes like the Bushido and Akasha. Just means there's a mix of rubber, usually Frixion White on most of it and a more longer lasting rubber in high wear areas.

For sticky sticky, it starts with Vibram rubbers like Megagrip.

I'm a big fan of the mutant for trail running and hiking on "loose over hardpack" conditions (since they have the bigger lugs). Any time I'm rock hopping or going to be on a lot of slabby trails (or scrambing) I'm 100% going to be in UltraRaptors. While they don't have a climbing zone per say, the low profile of the lugs make them fairly confidence inspiring for easier rock moves.

UltraRaptors are probably the best you're going to find for something that would be considered a hybrid trail runner slash approach shoe (in Sportiva at least).

It's so interesting how people's experiences differ across the LS line...

I've scrambled up to 5.3 in Mutants, Bushido IIs, Ultra Raptor IIs, and recently Kaptivas. I think Mutants are definitely the best scrambling shoe of that lineup, Bushidos are definitely the worst, and Ultra Raptors surprised me by being pretty bad for scrambling despite what seems like a better lug profile and a stiffer sole. I really don't feel secure scrambling in them. I just recently started breaking in a pair of Kaptivas, and I'm hopeful that after a few more weeks they'll be comparable to how I feel scrambling in Mutants and Mutant V2s.

But I definitely agree that they're a lot more sensitive to run in. Not necessarily a good thing or bad thing, but I sure think a lot more about every foot placement since they're so low to the ground and less padded.

Taylor S wrote:

It's so interesting how people's experiences differ across the LS line...

I've scrambled up to 5.3 in Mutants, Bushido IIs, Ultra Raptor IIs, and recently Kaptivas. I think Mutants are definitely the best scrambling shoe of that lineup, Bushidos are definitely the worst, and Ultra Raptors surprised me by being pretty bad for scrambling despite what seems like a better lug profile and a stiffer sole. I really don't feel secure scrambling in them. I just recently started breaking in a pair of Kaptivas, and I'm hopeful that after a few more weeks they'll be comparable to how I feel scrambling in Mutants and Mutant V2s.

But I definitely agree that they're a lot more sensitive to run in. Not necessarily a good thing or bad thing, but I sure think a lot more about every foot placement since they're so low to the ground and less padded.

Per comments above, as a long-time LS user, I find the friction of their mountain running line-up severely lacking, especially in wet conditions, and I pretty much go straight to adding climbing-grade dot rubber for flatiron-style scrambles. I  did a recent try-on of the mutant and was concerned by how much heel drop there was, something in common with their other mountain running offerings. The high profile lugs didn't inspire confidence either. A while back, I came very close to a serious ankle sprain on a pair of Ultra Raptors and pretty much stopped using them afterwards, favoring stock Bushidos for straight trail running or resoled outer soles for scrambling because the low heel drop provides a more stable platform on technical running terrain. So Sportiva, if you're reading this, for me the category killer would be a slightly beefed up Bushido a with low-profile tread outer sole using very high-friction rubber, and a low-tech lacing system that will hold up well over time. It would be sticky enough for safe scrambling but cushioned enough and flexible enough for serious distance in the mountains as well.

Peter Beal wrote:

Per comments above, as a long-time LS user, I find the friction of their mountain running line-up severely lacking, especially in wet conditions, and I pretty much go straight to adding climbing-grade dot rubber for flatiron-style scrambles. I  did a recent try-on of the mutant and was concerned by how much heel drop there was, something in common with their other mountain running offerings. The high profile lugs didn't inspire confidence either. A while back, I came very close to a serious ankle sprain on a pair of Ultra Raptors and pretty much stopped using them afterwards, favoring stock Bushidos for straight trail running or resoled outer soles for scrambling because the low heel drop provides a more stable platform on technical running terrain. So Sportiva, if you're reading this, for me the category killer would be a slightly beefed up Bushido a with low-profile tread outer sole using very high-friction rubber, and a low-tech lacing system that will hold up well over time. It would be sticky enough for safe scrambling but cushioned enough and flexible enough for serious distance in the mountains as well.

Hi Peter,

I think it's time I resole a pair of my kaptivas with sticky rubber.  What brand of rubber are you using?  And any chance you could post a picture of one of your LS running shoes resoled with sticky rubber?  

Mike