Learn to place offset nuts ?

1) Are there resources (e.g. websites or videos) showing placements that work and ones that don't ?

2) Aside from rock integrity issues and tiny aid-only sizes, do offset nuts have load-dependent failure modes that would show up under a 4kN lead fall but not under 1kN aid load ?

3) Are offset nut placements more sensitive to load direction than regular ones, and if so how much of an outward angle would one want to test for lead fall protection on sub-vertical (slab) routes ?

I have the older versions of "Climbing Anchors" and "More Climbing Anchors" and they have lots of pictures showing placements but, NOT of offsets that I recall.  I'd be willing to bet the newer editions of those books contain more examples of offsets.  A well placed offset is good to it's rated load.  Most placements are subjective and even with a picture of a perfect placement, it's hard to judge because, you can't see the rest of the route and the direction of potential loading.  I didn't climb with offsets until my son got some for his birthday last year and I can tell you that a well placed offset will give you that same warm fuzzy feeling that any well placed chock gives you.  I don't climb on pieces rated at 4kn, so I have no input there.

Why would you be concerned whether it was a regular nut or an offset nut?  Far more important is the quality of the placement.  Which one gives you greater surface area, which one is better suited for the direction of pull, which one is more likely to resist an outward pull.  If the crack is offset or flared an offset is likely a better fit.

Generally speaking, with nut placements, the largest nut with the greatest surface area is likely to be the most secure piece. I have placed many offset nuts that drop in so perfectly, it gives me more confidence than what appears to be a well placed bolt by some unknown person. 

Offsets rule the wasteland. What more do you need? Its a nut. Go place it.

What’s better than slotting up into that offset groove? Nothing, that’s what.

pictures please

0/10 

you can do better…

I’m just trying to think where you’d get a treasure trove of nut placement pictures. Somebody making an anchors book, or maybe go pro stills?

Greg D wrote:

Why would you be concerned whether it was a regular nut or an offset nut?

My main worry is that offset placements are less tolerant of outward pull because being offset already makes a straight-down pull "effectively outward" due to the offset shape.

Serge S wrote:

My main worry is that offset placements are less tolerant of outward pull because being offset already makes a straight-down pull "effectively outward" due to the offset shape.

Yeah, I think it is wise not to get complacent about offsets in flares.  Ideally you get them locked in in behind some nubbin/crystal/etc in order to help prevent the outward pull.

mbk wrote:

Yeah, I think it is wise not to get complacent about offsets in flares.  Ideally you get them locked in in behind some nubbin/crystal/etc in order to help prevent the outward pull.

Using an alpine, as opposed to a more rigid draw, helps to reduce the upward pull on the nut also.

I was taught that a good nut placement has as much surface area contacting the rock as possible. Because most cracks have some flare or angular nature to them, I find that off-sets tend to match the shape of the crack better and you end up with more surface area in contact with the rock. That said, getting behind a nubbin or in a pocket that prevents outward pull is preferred. As well as setting really well if necessary, and of course using extensions to prevent walking. But I agree with the above comments, it's a nut, place it well and go. Every placement is unique, you decide if it's good or bad in the moment. 

Tim Page wrote:

I was taught that a good nut placement has as much surface area contacting the rock as possible. Because most cracks have some flare or angular nature to them, I find that off-sets tend to match the shape of the crack better and you end up with more surface area in contact with the rock. 

I find this a bit unlikely. To achieve a lot of surface area contact, the crack really needs to have exactly the same "flare" as the nut has. Just a tiny bit too much flare or a tiny bit too little flare of the crack, and an offset nut has no more contact area than a regular nut. My obnoxious opinion: Since a "real" offset placement is with the wide part of the nut on the outside, you can't see what's going on on the inside. An offset is basically "hiding" the problem, it doesn't really "solve" the problem. 

Please, convince me otherwise. I wish I could believe in these offsets as most others do.

Patrik wrote:

I find this a bit unlikely. To achieve a lot of surface area contact, the crack really needs to have exactly the same "flare" as the nut has. Just a tiny bit too much flare or a tiny bit too little flare of the crack, and an offset nut has no more contact area than a regular nut. My obnoxious opinion: Since a "real" offset placement is with the wide part of the nut on the outside, you can't see what's going on on the inside. An offset is basically "hiding" the problem, it doesn't really "solve" the problem. 

Please, convince me otherwise. I wish I could believe in these offsets as most others do.

Agree. They're definitely overhyped. Still useful in certain situations, but overhyped nonetheless. 

Patrik wrote:

I find this a bit unlikely. To achieve a lot of surface area contact, the crack really needs to have exactly the same "flare" as the nut has. Just a tiny bit too much flare or a tiny bit too little flare of the crack, and an offset nut has no more contact area than a regular nut. My obnoxious opinion: Since a "real" offset placement is with the wide part of the nut on the outside, you can't see what's going on on the inside. An offset is basically "hiding" the problem, it doesn't really "solve" the problem. 

Please, convince me otherwise. I wish I could believe in these offsets as most others do.

Go climb granite cracks with regular nuts and offsets and see which are harder to remove. I frequently don’t set offsets too hard because they get are such a pain in the ass to get out.

On most climbs if I bring nuts they will be offsets over standard nuts. They just fit better in more situations 

I find this a bit unlikely. To achieve a lot of surface area contact, the crack really needs to have exactly the same "flare" as the nut has. Just a tiny bit too much flare or a tiny bit too little flare of the crack, and an offset nut has no more contact area than a regular nut. My obnoxious opinion: Since a "real" offset placement is with the wide part of the nut on the outside, you can't see what's going on on the inside. An offset is basically "hiding" the problem, it doesn't really "solve" the problem. 

Please, convince me otherwise. I wish I could believe in these offsets as most others do.

All I can say is your presumptions don't line up with my experience, but I don't need to convince you of anything. Your beliefs don't affect the holding power of an offset nut.

Bb Cc wrote:

Has anyone learned to place effective off-set nuts in the first 24 feet of Serenity?

Do micro bass off-set nuts work on Serenity’s first 24 feet?

Bottom of the pin scars are too blown out to hold really any nut. I think i remember getting one kinda decent offset cam or a purp totem.