Where are the lead rope solo devices?

I am a climber in an area without the strongest community and always have trouble finding partners so I’ve gotten into lead rope soloing (to be clear.. NOT top rope soloing.)

Anyone who has done any research on lead rope soloing knows that the “Silent Partner” is the best device and it is outrageously priced on the used market because it is no longer manufactured…

My question is, how is there no device designed specifically for lead rope soloing in the modern market? Or is there one that I just haven’t come across yet in my search? What am I missing here? 

There is tons of info on rope soloing out there and virtually everything will say the silent partner works best but you can use other devices like the gri-gri or Revo but neither of them are that great. (I personally use the gri-gri but it is sketchy and awkward. I have not used the Revo but everything I’ve read/watched on it for this application says it’s worse than the gri-gri.)

How has the silent partner not been revived and how is there literally NO device on the market specifically designed for lead rope soloing?

Well, in general, the purpose of a business is to make money. Quite frankly, when you add together the costs of development and production, no company is going to sell enough rope solo devices to make it make sense. While it does seem that there's a huge demand, once the 50 or so people on mountain project that have been so vocal about it have their hands on one, then what? Even if 300 lead soloists purchase such a product, a company would rather spend the production time on something they could sell thousands of. It's a product that lies within a niche of a niche, there's not enough market to incentivize a company to put the effort in.

Cage Vigil wrote:

Well, in general, the purpose of a business is to make money. Quite frankly, when you add together the costs of development and production, no company is going to sell enough rope solo devices to make it make sense. While it does seem that there's a huge demand, once the 50 or so people on mountain project that have been so vocal about it have their hands on one, then what? Even if 300 lead soloists purchase such a product, a company would rather spend the production time on something they could sell thousands of. It's a product that lies within a niche of a niche, there's not enough market to incentivize a company to put the effort in.

What if each of us buy two?

My buddy just took a 60 footer on a revo on el cap while on a LRS block. He LRSs a shit tonne in j tree and loves the revo. 

The Revo is an awesome device and works well for lead roped soloing if you don't have an SP. I use it on any wall where I'm planning on shortfixing. 

Cole Darby wrote:

My buddy just took a 60 footer on a revo on el cap while on a LRS block. He LRSs a shit tonne in j tree and loves the revo. 

Is the device still fine, or does it show any damage from such a big fall? I suppose the rope would stretch quite abit in such a fall and lessen the impact.

A good article by Andy Kirkpatrick on why Rock Exotica stopped making the Silent Partner, and current alternatives:

https://www.andy-kirkpatrick.com/blog/view/a-hunk-of-cold-metal

Short version:  they sold for $200, 100 were sold per year, and they lost money on them.

Here's one of the videos that Andy refers to:

Nordic Gumby wrote:

Is the device still fine, or does it show any damage from such a big fall? I suppose the rope would stretch quite abit in such a fall and lessen the impact.

You're not going to see much damage in a long fall like that because of the rope stretch doing what it's supposed to do. It's the shorter falls of high fall factor that are going to damage the device despite them looking and seeming less consequential 

I use a Revo for lead solo and it is great. It feeds nicely and has caught every time I have taken a fall. I use it with a steel anti-crossload carabineer, so the system is a bit heavy. The failure modes are fewer and far less likely than a Grigri and it can't be loaded backwards. After a few years of use, it still locks up when it is supposed to and shows very little cosmetic wear.

I think a point that needs to be made also is that the SP kinda blows from a quality of life/usability perspective. Without a doubt the most bomber device on the market and I've never owned or used one, but people report that it's a pain to unload when fallen on, rapping on it sucks, following with it sucks. 

Compare to the Revo and Taz that excel in all those departments and are easily available. 

The Revo does not suck at all. It's amazing and my primary LRS device. It has one major caveat though: do not FF2 onto it or you and your rope are in for a real bad day. 

Ricky Harline wrote:

I think a point that needs to be made also is that the SP kinda blows from a quality of life/usability perspective. Without a doubt the most bomber device on the market and I've never owned or used one, but people report that it's a pain to unload when fallen on, rapping on it sucks, following with it sucks. 

Compare to the Revo and Taz that excel in all those departments and are easily available. 

The Revo does not suck at all. It's amazing and my primary LRS device. It has one major caveat though: do not FF2 onto it or you and your rope are in for a real bad day. 

The SP isn't meant to be used for rappelling or following (not even sure what following would be for LRS) and really one should be u sing a different device for those situations. On bigwalls you'll bring a grigri as well for things like lowerouts and penjis and for the myriad of other things like releasing the haul bag from the PCP after docking the bags. For freeclimbing, LRS you just bring an atc for rapping and call it good. 

And after many many falls in my SP, I've not found it to be a pain to unload after you've fallen on it as long as you can get your weight off of it.

Considering the alternatives, it's usability / quality of life is on par all things considered. Such as the Revo is lighter, less bulky, and easier to load/unload but suffers from taking longer to catch than the SP. Not much more than a few feet but that can be the difference between hitting a ledge and barely missing a ledge. 

Fail Falling wrote:

The SP isn't meant to be used for rappelling or following (not even sure what following would be for LRS) and really one should be u sing a different device for those situations. On bigwalls you'll bring a grigri as well for things like lowerouts and penjis and for the myriad of other things like releasing the haul bag from the PCP after docking the bags. For freeclimbing, LRS you just bring an atc for rapping and call it good. 

And after many many falls in my SP, I've not found it to be a pain to unload after you've fallen on it as long as you can get your weight off of it.

Considering the alternatives, it's usability / quality of life is on par all things considered. Such as the Revo is lighter, less bulky, and easier to load/unload but suffers from taking longer to catch than the SP. Not much more than a few feet but that can be the difference between hitting a ledge and barely missing a ledge. 

Following I just mean climbing TRS-- if it's single pitch this isn't necessary as you can clean as you lower, but for multipitch following your own leads is mandatory. 

What you mentioned about unloading the device is exactly my point. With other devices if the wall is overhanging you can lower to a good hold or ledge-- with the SP you have to get up to shenanigans just to unlock the device. 

But this is the major point: watch videos of Andrea Calligaris leading, clipping the chains, and then lowering on a Revo. He didn't do multipitch but lots of people follow their own pitches using just the Revo. Or once you learn about Yann's Lov3 system where he leads, raps, and then follows all on the same device the SP starts to look like a dinosaur. It saves a lot of time at each stage, which on a multipitch could be significant. 

Also the Revo is commonly modded to reduce the engagement time. Going too far is a possibility (ask me how I know) and then it will lock immediately in a fall but will also lock occasionally on the way up, which sucks, so the so called "light mod" is the one to go for. 

I think there are applications where the SP is undoubtedly the king of LRS, but I think in a lot of other applications with what the LRS community has figured out in the last 5 years it simply can't keep up with the convenience of other systems that people have come up with using other devices. The Taz Lov3 is the ultimate example for multipitch, and I think the Revo is the best for single pitch. There's simply a lot less fucking around. More climbing, less shenanigans.  Why use two or three devices to climb LRS when one will do? The SP is part of an LRS setup, a Revo or Lov IS an LRS setup, no Grigri or mini ascenders required for lowering and following. 

Ricky Harline wrote:

Following I just mean climbing TRS-- if it's single pitch this isn't necessary as you can clean as you lower, but for multipitch following your own leads is mandatory. 

What you mentioned about unloading the device is exactly my point. With other devices if the wall is overhanging you can lower to a good hold or ledge-- with the SP you have to get up to shenanigans just to unlock the device. 

But this is the major point: watch videos of Andrea Calligaris leading, clipping the chains, and then lowering on a Revo. He didn't do multipitch but lots of people follow their own pitches using just the Revo. Or once you learn about Yann's Lov3 system where he leads, raps, and then follows all on the same device the SP starts to look like a dinosaur. It saves a lot of time at each stage, which on a multipitch could be significant. 

Also the Revo is commonly modded to reduce the engagement time. Going too far is a possibility (ask me how I know) and then it will lock immediately in a fall but will also lock occasionally on the way up, which sucks, so the so called "light mod" is the one to go for. 

I think there are applications where the SP is undoubtedly the king of LRS, but I think in a lot of other applications with what the LRS community has figured out in the last 5 years it simply can't keep up with the convenience of other systems that people have come up with using other devices. The Taz Lov3 is the ultimate example for multipitch, and I think the Revo is the best for single pitch. There's simply a lot less fucking around. More climbing, less shenanigans.  Why use two or three devices to climb LRS when one will do? The SP is part of an LRS setup, a Revo or Lov IS an LRS setup, no Grigri or mini ascenders required for lowering and following. 

Yeah TRS is a completely different system and anyone using a SP for TRS should have their head examined 

Tbh I only LRS on bigwalls so my opinions are pretty much relegated to that experience. 

My main point is that the value of the SP is how quickly and reliably it catches a fall. For me, this defined the usability and quality of life of a LRS device. For me, this is worth the extra steps at the anchor or after a fall considering the consequences of something going wrong in a fall. 

I'm aware of how great the Revo is and have proclaimed its value since it came out. I will say that rapping with a Revo, while doable and fine, sucks. 

In the end, the SP is part of an LRS setup that works to keep you off that ledge below you, whereas a Revo is a LRS setup that probably will keep you off that ledge. 

It's cheaper to just fix your personality disorder and get a partner.  

Fail Falling wrote:

Yeah TRS is a completely different system and anyone using a SP for TRS should have their head examined 

Tbh I only LRS on bigwalls so my opinions are pretty much relegated to that experience. 

My main point is that the value of the SP is how quickly and reliably it catches a fall. For me, this defined the usability and quality of life of a LRS device. For me, this is worth the extra steps at the anchor or after a fall considering the consequences of something going wrong in a fall. 

I'm aware of how great the Revo is and have proclaimed its value since it came out. I will say that rapping with a Revo, while doable and fine, sucks. 

In the end, the SP is part of an LRS setup that works to keep you off that ledge below you, whereas a Revo is a LRS setup that probably will keep you off that ledge. 

If I ever get on a big wall alone (hopefully some day) I'll probably want a Silent Partner too! I agree it's the superior choice for what you're doing-- I think the Taz would be similar in performance and reliability but the setup Yann has come up with involves a lot of bits and bobs and seems really smooth and quick once you get it figured out, but it is a lot more to figure out than just using a single device like the SP or Revo. But there was recently a weird situation with the Taz and Yann has stopped using it at all for LRS for the time being until we learn for certain why a Lov3 failed, so that kinda puts the ball back in the SP's court pretty hard for it being a known quantity. 

I think that's kind of how I think of it-- the SP is absolutely 100% bomber. Other devices have more bells and whistles and can be more convenient but they all have these various concerns that need to be known about worked around. If you want the most bomber device on the market and to not have to put any thought into whether or not it's going to catch you under any circumstances? SP is still the superior device by a significant margin. But if you want to lead, rap, and follow as quickly as possible with minimal changeover and all on the same device then the SP is significantly outdated.

I've heard rumors of devices being worked on. Maybe one day we'll get our SP level of quality from a Taz Lov or Revo style device. That would be the dream. For all the reasons mentioned here in this thread though I'm not hoping too hard.

Glowering wrote:

It's cheaper to just fix your personality disorder and get a partner.  

Only if your health insurance covers a therapist.   

Mark Starr wrote:

Only if your health insurance covers a therapist.   

Even when it does it never covers one for enough sessions to matter

Therapy is like climbing, you have to put in the work. And you can't expect your climbing partner (therapist) to carry all the weight, do all the hauling and leading and to be the only one who shows up every time, and then wonder why you aren't getting stronger and still suck as a climber.

Nathan Doyle wrote:

Therapy is like climbing, you have to put in the work. And you can't expect your climbing partner (therapist) to carry all the weight, do all the hauling and leading and to be the only one who shows up every time, and then wonder why you aren't getting stronger and still suck as a climber.

Is it also fundamentally pointless and irrelevant?  

Fail Falling wrote:

Even when it does it never covers one for enough sessions to matter

Especially since the standard of care for treatment of a personality disorder (last time I checked) is 5 sessions per week of therapy for a year or more with a specialist trained in the treatment of personality disorders. 

Five days a week for a year or more - so it takes a lot less work than climbing. Been climbing 40+ years still crazy.