Limestone Trad Rack?

Hi all,

Obviously I'll figure this one out for myself soon enough, but...

I'm going to be living for a year in Aix-en-Provence, France.  I just got the local guidebook (for  Mont Sainte Victoire) and it contains a surprisingly large number of long easy trad routes.  There are definitely many bolted routes too, but I'm psyched to check some of the trad lines out.

It may be that "limestone" is just a meaninglessly large category and I just have to go see about this particular cliff (actually a group of about 20 cliffs 18km long), but if anyone feels like they've found any generalizable suggestions about trad gear for limestone I'd be interested to hear them.

Thanks Leon! 

Edit: both extremely useful threads, just what I was after, thanks again 

Totem cams

Totems and passive gear. And don't fall.

I think the key here is what you describe as “long, easy trad routes”. I think this type of route will probably require much the same rack that you’d carry on “long, easy trad routes” at granite or sandstone crags. Think: a full set of cams from fingertips to fists, doubles in the finger and hand sizes, a dozen or so nuts with a few offsets thrown in, possibly a larger cam or two, possibly a few micro pieces.

Yes, limestone might provide a few weird pocket placements, but generally the cracks, horizontals, and other features are going to require the same protection as other rock types.

Robert Swrote:

And don't fall.

Unfortunately I already follow this rule, hence my persistent presence on "long, easy trad routes" instead of "short, fierce trad routes".  

Teton Tomwrote:

I think the key here is what you describe as “long, easy trad routes”. I think this type of route will probably require much the same rack that you’d carry on “long, easy trad routes” at granite or sandstone crags. Think: a full set of cams from fingertips to fists, doubles in the finger and hand sizes, a dozen or so nuts with a few offsets thrown in, possibly a larger cam or two, possibly a few micro pieces.

Yes, limestone might provide a few weird pocket placements, but generally the cracks, horizontals, and other features are going to require the same protection as other rock types.

Thanks Tom.  I think that is definitely right, although Sainte Victoire has a reputation for extremely sporty bolting (bolt every 10 meters kinda thing) on its older single pitch routes (many of which were put up in the late '80s) at all grades, so I think developing an ability to supplement with gear on the thinner routes may also come in handy.  Sounds like nuts may be the way forward there.  That, or climbing way below my already fairly anemic onsight grade...

Optimisticwrote:

Thanks Tom.  I think that is definitely right, although Sainte Victoire has a reputation for extremely sporty bolting (bolt every 10 meters kinda thing) on its older single pitch routes (many of which were put up in the late '80s) at all grades, so I think developing an ability to supplement with gear on the thinner routes may also come in handy.  Sounds like nuts may be the way forward there.  That, or climbing way below my already fairly anemic onsight grade...

I’m in the process of moving to NC, and am stoked to check out new crags around the East. Looks like we’re into the same sort of stuff, maybe meet up sometime!

Teton Tomwrote:

I’m in the process of moving to NC, and am stoked to check out new crags around the East. Looks like we’re into the same sort of stuff, maybe meet up sometime!

Continental drift has recently separated NC from Aix-en-Provence, France a little bit.  But AEP is really nice, so, sure, hop a flight and get together.  

Teton Tomwrote:

I’m in the process of moving to NC, and am stoked to check out new crags around the East. Looks like we’re into the same sort of stuff, maybe meet up sometime!

Sure, drop a line if you're in the area...although we are heading to France ~July 9 for a year, so it'd have to be soon!

I've climbed Ste Victoire as well as a number of other trad limestone areas. I don't see there being any significant difference in the rack from most granite areas. Maybe less of real small stuff that may not hold in somewhat softer rock. I like tricams for pockets and such.

So in that area you won't be finding much in the way of pocketed limestone, skip the tricams, when I was there I found it to be pretty large features(but too rounded for slung features), I was climbing on a chamonix rack, double cams single set of nuts and I found my self wanting for large nuts/hexes so you may want to get a rack of them. It's not your usual super slippery limestone though mind you so cams are also completely fine. 

Very different to Brit limestone both seacliff and inland. Its an absolutely rad place to climb but routes definitely a bit sandbagged. null