Lean To Shed for Climbing Wall

Right now I have a home wall in my garage at 40 degrees and it is 12 feet wide. I used it probably twice a week in the winter and got a gym membership. However my wife is baby crazy and I didn't really like going to the gym that much since it isn't close to my house and insanely crowded. My main issue with my current woody is that I am bad at setting hard boulder problems for me on it. 

My thought is to build a new shed tall enough to have a moon board and then put the remaining pieces of my woody around it. Does anyone have specific thoughts on building a shed for this purpose? I was thinking 16x8 with a concrete block foundation. I was not going to insulate it since winters are not that cold here, however I was gonna wire electricity to it for fans/heaters on bad days.

I am thinking the 2016 holdset, since I have been climbing v3/v4/maybe v5 on 2017. 

Is there anything else to consider?

Pole barns are super easy to build. Especially solo. Lots of plans online. 

No input on the shed. A 12ft wide homewall sounds amazing though, do you really need an extra shed and a Moonboard? There is an app that generates random problems once you add your holds. I think the name was Boulderbot. Most problems are rubbish, but 1 in 10 is ok, and you can often tweak them a bit to make more sense. I've used it for inspiration when I didn't feel like coming up with new problems. I typically try to find cool single hard moves, or two hard moves in succession at most, and then just build a problem around them.

There are a couple reasons I wanna move it. First I didn't put enough T nuts in the wall. Second, the idea of buying a bigger house in the Seattle area seems super super overwhelming. I think getting an additional 500 sq ft would cost over 200k plus closing costs. When I could convert my garage into a room and add an addition to my house for 100k. Third I have a 11,000 sq foot back yard, so I have plenty of room.

The benefit of putting in the 2016 moon board is that I can put extra holds on to make problems easier or harder like with your app idea, but it is more efficient. Also, right now I mostly use the wall for circuiting and making 50 move problems and I have given myself good feet to mimic my project which is bad for hard bouldering. 

I think you will find the cost to build this structure pretty expensive given current material costs.  If you are already looking to convert your garage to living space I think a better use of money would be to build a new garage and design the loft area to become your climbing gym.  If you design it right you can utilize the rafters as your climbing wall framing.

If you decide to build a shed go bigger!  8x16 is not deep enough for a moonboard at 40.  It would feel cramped at 20.  Insulation is always worth the additional cost, the only thing cheaper in building is painting, so just use pre-primed siding and paint later.  Summer sun should be a bigger concern than winter cold in keeping the space usable year round.  12x16 should be your minimum build size.  Some prefab sheds have 10' ceiling heights, and you can get extra height with a gambrel roof as well.  

Kevin Stricker wrote:

I think you will find the cost to build this structure pretty expensive given current material costs. 

Yeah I have been remodelling a lot of stuff and am not excited but I feel like I need to build the shed in the summer here.

 If you are already looking to convert your garage to living space I think a better use of money would be to build a new garage and design the loft area to become your climbing gym.  If you design it right you can utilize the rafters as your climbing wall framing.

I think the conversion of the garage won't happen for another year or two but all my neighbors converted their garages. My garage is like 12 feet wide but my hot water tank and furnace take up a bit of space and functionally makes the garage not ideal for parking a car. Unfortunately I can't expand off the front of my house, there are too many trees.

If you decide to build a shed go bigger!  8x16 is not deep enough for a moonboard at 40.  It would feel cramped at 20. 

12x20 would be better? I think any bigger requires a permit here. 

 Insulation is always worth the additional cost, the only thing cheaper in building is painting, so just use pre-primed siding and paint later.  

Would you build the shed, insulate, drywall/particle board, then frame the woody? Or would the woody be fine with insulation just sitting behind it?

Summer sun should be a bigger concern than winter cold in keeping the space usable year round.  12x16 should be your minimum build size.  Some prefab sheds have 10' ceiling heights, and you can get extra height with a gambrel roof as well.  

The upside is it will have trees all around it, I am not super concerned about summer here as I am pretty good at getting outside to climb. Even if I climb 30% as much as I currently do that is still one-two days outside, I have a lot of climbs with flat landing areas and unpopular I have been saving for when I have a baby with me. I watched a lot of horror youtube videos of prefab sheds and the upside of a lean to is that I can build a wood port behind it. 

Good thoughts thanks!

Princess Puppy Lovr wrote:

12x20 would be better? I think any bigger requires a permit here. 

Yes, you could have the walls facing each other at 12' wide and with 20' could get a 16' wide wall with elbow room.  

Would you build the shed, insulate, drywall/particle board, then frame the woody? Or would the woody be fine with insulation just sitting behind it?

If you wanted your walls to act as a roof similar to an A frame you could just insulate the joists.  I would cover the joists with a vapor barrier and add furring strips then attach your wall to that.    If you are building standard walls and framing the woody inside with additional framing you can just insulate and use a vapor barrier.  Drywall would not be necessary, just use an unfaced insulation as kraft faced is a fire hazard when left uncovered.

Yes some prefab sheds are garbage, but some are decent.  It's worth looking into the cost difference vs building your own.

Trevor: Back in the day, I had a detached two car garage that was maybe 25' by 25'. I had a three panel, 8' wide by 12' long (climbing out) 40 degree woody with a 1' kicker panel, mounted to the rafters that I could still (just barely) park my Chevy Suburban under. Could stack two single mattresses on top of each other and push up close to the kicker and still park the pig. Not sure how tall/long yours is, but I found this to be a setup that offered a hell of a lot of climbing. The kicker panel was key. It elevated the 40 degrees a foot off the ground, which let me crawl way up under and/or sideways to make the most of the length of the wall.

I'm about to build an outdoor cave/wall. It will be 4' wide and 12' long, likely 40 degrees. My back yard is only like 6 to 8' wide over 35' length. I'm living semi-urban in Santa Fe, NM in a 475 sf casita so it's all I've got to work with. It will be rain-proof on top but obviously subject to weathering underneath. I kept all my holds from the old woody. Most of my holds are actual wood and manufactured by myself. I believe that when you've only got so much room to work with, steep and as long as you can go is best, over going for tall height/less steep in a home wall. Reason being, the steepness builds body and core strength that carries over to any angle/style of climbing.

I don't know that I'm really answering your question, but just throwing it out there for consideration. Cheers!

It will be rain-proof on top but obviously subject to weathering underneath.

I have a tiny yard as well and no free garage space. Always wanted to do build an outdoor woody. What's your weather proofing plan? I live in Portland so it's wet all winter but the woody would be under a massive fir tree, which keeps the area relatively dry.

Also, would you bring the pad in and out every time you use it, or just leave it out there? 

Kevin Stricker wrote:

Yes, you could have the walls facing each other at 12' wide and with 20' could get a 16' wide wall with elbow room.  

Yeah, I was also figuring a vert wall on one side for my eventual children!

If you wanted your walls to act as a roof similar to an A frame you could just insulate the joists.  I would cover the joists with a vapor barrier and add furring strips then attach your wall to that.    If you are building standard walls and framing the woody inside with additional framing you can just insulate and use a vapor barrier.  Drywall would not be necessary, just use an unfaced insulation as kraft faced is a fire hazard when left uncovered.

I forgot this was even a thing! Thanks!

Yes some prefab sheds are garbage, but some are decent.  It's worth looking into the cost difference vs building your own.

My father in law is paying for a 8x14 shed and its costing him $5k. A lot of the prefab sheds also might not be tall enough. The height aspect is a pretty big deal for me, I am 6'3'' +4. I know I need to set harder problems on my woody but I tend to just reach through. On my main project outdoors, I skip 10 holds compared to average height friends. Which makes it hard to mimic the movement, if each move I gain 3-4 feet.  

LL2 wrote:

Trevor: Back in the day, I had a detached two car garage that was maybe 25' by 25'. I had a three panel, 8' wide by 12' long (climbing out) 40 degree woody with a 1' kicker panel, mounted to the rafters that I could still (just barely) park my Chevy Suburban under.

That is essentially my current setup. So far it is fine but since I have the money and time to make it better, I might as well!

 Could stack two single mattresses on top of each other and push up close to the kicker and still park the pig. Not sure how tall/long yours is, but I found this to be a setup that offered a hell of a lot of climbing. The kicker panel was key. It elevated the 40 degrees a foot off the ground, which let me crawl way up under and/or sideways to make the most of the length of the wall.

I'm about to build an outdoor cave/wall. It will be 4' wide and 12' long, likely 40 degrees. My back yard is only like 6 to 8' wide over 35' length. I'm living semi-urban in Santa Fe, NM in a 475 sf casita so it's all I've got to work with. 

Rough! My 10lb Shih Tzu would eat me alive if he was in a 8x35 yard but sounds like you will make it work! My biggest issue with the wall is that it doesn't maintain finger strength great. The main issue is the better feet I set, the better it is for sport climbing training but then it is hard to ignore good feet for bouldering. 

It will be rain-proof on top but obviously subject to weathering underneath. I kept all my holds from the old woody. Most of my holds are actual wood and manufactured by myself. I believe that when you've only got so much room to work with, steep and as long as you can go is best, over going for tall height/less steep in a home wall. Reason being, the steepness builds body and core strength that carries over to any angle/style of climbing.

I am hoping to get better at making wood holds but mine tend to break on me, I think I need better wood.

I don't know that I'm really answering your question, but just throwing it out there for consideration. Cheers!

Thanks!

drew A wrote:

I have a tiny yard as well and no free garage space. Always wanted to do build an outdoor woody. What's your weather proofing plan? I live in Portland so it's wet all winter but the woody would be under a massive fir tree, which keeps the area relatively dry.

Also, would you bring the pad in and out every time you use it, or just leave it out there?

I would gravel the landing area and if you are just working endurance don't worry about a pad. Otherwise I would just store everything in your pad, inside since you won't wall leave shoes and chalk outside. My first year of bolting I left my helmet outside for 8 hours. Mice ate it. The humidity of portland might also make your pad nasty and if the pad is lightly damp, it will make your shoes damp. 

Trevor:

Hard wood when you can for crimps, flakes, incuts and the like. I made some amazing cobbles out of standard soft two by fours and sixes glued together, cut to rough shape, then sanded. I've used thick wood dowels with a side shaved off flat I've made lots of little edge and tiny "cobble" screw on footholds out of plywood which do start to fall apart over time but are still usable. But lots of soft wood for larger holds, hardwood for smaller ones is the rule. Primary tools were glue, band saw for major shaping (cutting corners off glued together two by sixes or fours to get the basic cobble shape), then a table sander to round everything all up (wear gloves or lose knuckles, lol). I actually had really good results with wood. I'll try to dig up some pics. The holds are stashed away where it would be a pain to pull them out now.

drew A wrote:

What's your weather proofing plan? I live in Portland so it's wet all winter but the woody would be under a massive fir tree, which keeps the area relatively dry. Also, would you bring the pad in and out every time you use it, or just leave it out there? 

Drew: I'm in Santa Fe, NM, where it's bone dry most of the time but then we get seriously heavy rain at times. There's a reason they call it Monsoon Season: it's the real deal when it happens. Streets flood, my yard floods. But it always dries out completely, so my weatherproofing needs and yours could be very different. Although the fir tree sounds like it would help a lot.

That said, I haven't priced materials for a while, and I know I'll be in for some sticker shock, but I've considered a couple options: 1) Plywood/chip board/ on top, standard roofing tar paper wrapped around the sides of the supporting two by sixes, and actual roofing shingles. 2) Thin plywood/chip board/bead board even on top, standard roofing tar paper wrapped around the sides of the supporting two by sixes, and either single or double layer standard outdoor tarps.

I think having some kind of plywood on top is critical, and the roofing tar paper too. That way, if your tarp wears out and starts to leak a bit (it will - mine certainly because it will bake in the sun), you've still got the tar paper offering basic rain protection. I think the wood substrate gives it the rigidity to hold up to wind and such. If you just had an open top framework, I think a tarp would never hold up due to wind.

Trevor:The horizontal lines you see are a photo defect/anomaly. This was two 2x6 glued together then heavily fashioned.

Foot chips made of simple plywood. They break up over time but not that fast. Five Year Plan was a 2 x 4 with pockets fashioned from the underside.

Zoom in on the right upper corner. You can see a good incut made from simple hardwood trim moulding, a bolt on pocket fashioned out of regular soft 2x4, and a hardwood pinch, as well as other glued together things

Finally, Big Log was a simple stairway upright, shaved flat on one side. I wish I had more cobble pics. They were a lot of fun to make and really good to climb on.

LL2 wrote:

1) Plywood/chip board/ on top, standard roofing tar paper wrapped around the sides of the supporting two by sixes, and actual roofing shingles. 2) Thin plywood/chip board/bead board even on top, standard roofing tar paper wrapped around the sides of the supporting two by sixes, and either single or double layer standard outdoor tarps.

Both are good ideas, thanks! Yea it's definitely a big project to get that built. I'm also thinking of building a crack trainer and screwing it to the side of my house. Might tackle that one first since it'll be a lot simpler...

The woody will be a late summer/fall project. 

Not sure if this has been suggested but you could convert it into a spray wall. Then just find moves that are hard for you and link one to another. 

For waterproofing outdoor walls its much better to use corrugated roofing panels.  It's cheaper and much lighter and doesn't hold the heat like asphalt.  Just run 1x2's perpendicular to your framing to act as perlins for the roof to attach too.  If you have high winds in your area consider using 2x2's.  Then cap flash over the top of the wall covering over the roofing and a drip edge on the top front face to kick water out so it doesn't run down the wall.

Trevor you really should just re-build your current woody!  It's easy to add t-nuts or use lone star inserts and set screws to attach holds where there are no t-nuts.  I had plans engineered for a 16x20 Boulder Barn, but couldn't stomach the excavation and material costs once I priced everything out.  

LL2 wrote:

Solid, I tried to make some with scrap 2x6, and I think I might be too fat because they always explode on me :/. 

Adam Ronchetti wrote:

Not sure if this has been suggested but you could convert it into a spray wall. Then just find moves that are hard for you and link one to another.

That is essentially what it is right now, I am just bad at making hard enough moves. 

Kevin Stricker wrote:

For waterproofing outdoor walls its much better to use corrugated roofing panels.  It's cheaper and much lighter and doesn't hold the heat like asphalt.  Just run 1x2's perpendicular to your framing to act as perlins for the roof to attach too.  If you have high winds in your area consider using 2x2's.  Then cap flash over the top of the wall covering over the roofing and a drip edge on the top front face to kick water out so it doesn't run down the wall.

This is what I was going to do, and I redid the roof to one of my sheds, and I think using some cheap plywood is easier to put a metal roof on than have perlins, at least for me it was too awkward to put screws in to hold the roof down. 

Trevor you really should just re-build your current woody!  It's easy to add t-nuts or use lone star inserts and set screws to attach holds where there are no t-nuts.  I had plans engineered for a 16x20 Boulder Barn, but couldn't stomach the excavation and material costs once I priced everything out.  

Yeah that is a thought, but I really don't have a great place for children to play in my house, so I feel like I need to convert my garage into a room. 

drew A wrote:

Both are good ideas, thanks! Yea it's definitely a big project to get that built. I'm also thinking of building a crack trainer and screwing it to the side of my house. Might tackle that one first since it'll be a lot simpler...

The woody will be a late summer/fall project. 

Did you ever get this built? I'm in Portland as well and would like to pick your brain for weatherproofing advice on an outdoor wall.

James Wellence wrote:

Did you ever get this built? I'm in Portland as well and would like to pick your brain for weatherproofing advice on an outdoor wall.

I assume you are talking to the other person but incase you are not, I did build my shed. I can post pictures. My main takeaway is to be way pickier about lumber, like I bought from the most reputable lumber store and I should have returned half the pieces. If you want an exclusively outdoor wall I would consider building a carport if you live in portland. 

Princess Puppy Lovr wrote:

I assume you are talking to the other person but incase you are not, I did build my shed. I can post pictures. My main takeaway is to be way pickier about lumber, like I bought from the most reputable lumber store and I should have returned half the pieces. If you want an exclusively outdoor wall I would consider building a carport if you live in portland. 

I was talking to the other person, but I imagine weather concerns for Renton are similar to Portland. So I'd love to see how you solved this problem. I actually have a 12' ceiling in my living room, but I decided to have a living room instead of a Moon Board there :( Maybe there's a way to do both...

James Wellence wrote:

I was talking to the other person, but I imagine weather concerns for Renton are similar to Portland. So I'd love to see how you solved this problem. I actually have a 12' ceiling in my living room, but I decided to have a living room instead of a Moon Board there :( Maybe there's a way to do both...

I just built a shed, and it works perfectly. I really wouldn't go straight outside in the PNW, given that I only use the shed when it rains. In renton the code is avg height of 12 feet and 200 square feet which is perfect for a woody. The climbing gyms are not convenient from my house so this seemed like the best option. The framing of the walls is super easy but the placing of paneling and roof is an absolute nightmare alone. The building it almost entirely alone was about 6k (shed wood, woody wood, paint, roofing, moonboard holds). I still need to wire it, add trim, gutters, ditch, the drainage, enclose the bottom but it is useable.