Steel Belay Device or Carabiner?
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I was looking at getting either a steel belay device like the Edelrid Mega Jul or the Mammut Norwand Alpine (thoughts on those would be appreciated) or a carabiner like the Edelrid Bulletproof HMS. My way of thinking is that the carabiner gets most of the wear when belaying and the device hardly at all unless you're rappelling/lowering, I'm probably wrong but that's what I thought. I just like that steel doesn't make your rope all dirty like aluminum and it lasts longer. So it would make sense to get the Bulletproof HMS and an aluminum device like the Petzl Reverso. Instead of an aluminum carabiner and a steel belay device since the device doesn't receive the brunt of the wear (again I could be wrong). Or should I get both a steel belay device and carabiner? If so do people prefer belaying with the Mega Jul or the Norwand? The Mega Jul weighs 65g which is nicer than the Norwand's 80g but weight doesn't really matter since most of the climbs I do are 1-3 pitches. So I'm mostly concerned with their performance in giving a belay, both lead and from the top of a pitch. Thanks. |
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The Norwand is a tubular belay device while the Mega Jul is an assisted break tubular belay device. My experience with the BD Pilot is that they wear out carabiners faster. I switched to the bulletproof carabiner and it has reduced the wear a lot. It also kept my rope cleaner. |
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You could use a grigri. Great belay device and the cam is steel. But use what you are good at using. I would prefer a good belay even if it makes my rope a little dirty. |
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Aluminum contact surfaces will wear much faster than steel. For any situation where you don't need to save every ounce, I prefer to have all contact surfaces be steel. One reason that the that GriGris are great is that all of the major contact surfaces are steel and you don't need to use either a heavy steel or round stock aluminum carabiner with them. https://www.alpinesavvy.com/blog/grigris-for-alpine-climbing Bulletproof carabiner aren't great if you plan to use them for belaying followers in "guide mode" on tube style devices. The bulletproof carabiners inevitably roll, so that the steel surface isn't exactly where you want it to be. Round stock aluminum carabiners word much better for that application. If you do opt for a bulletproof belay carabiner, I would recommend the newer version (https://edelrid.com/us-en/sport/carabiners-and-quickdraws-shop/hms-bulletproof-belay-fg?filter[kategorie_id][0]=24) over the earlier versions. |
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Michael Abend wrote: Huh I always assumed that the Grigri's cam was aluminum, but I've never really used one so I'm more comfortable belaying with an ATC, but that change if I practice. The weight difference of a Grigri vs a Reverso with a Bulletproof carabiner is only 36 grams so not bad at all. A carabiner block makes it possible to rappel single stranded, and I hear Grigris are easier to top belay with since the ropes aren't pinched together. This actually sounds like a pretty good option. |
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I like my HMS bulletproofs. The only negative is that the rope slides off the steel part and towards the nose when guide style belaying. This causes lots of friction and negates the benefits of the rope running over the steel. It's slightly annoying, but can be easily corrected. I think the bulletproof is still worth it for having a steel biner to rap on. |
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AFAIK the main applications of steel biners are (1) in toprope anchors for guides who take clients top-roping super often, and (2) in gyms. |
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Karl Henize wrote: I have one of the first gen ones and I don't recommend the autolocking version. It's a pain to open. Very hard to do 1 handed. That new one looks much better. |
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Alec Baker wrote: Is that this one? What doesn't seem to be working in terms of it locking up with the gigajul? I know someone who uses that pair and it seems to go fine, I was about to get the same myself... |
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I switched to the Nordwand Alpine a while ago and I really like it. Guide mode seems to be noticeably easier to pull rope through than with a BD ATC or Petzl Reverso, and it locks up just as well. I use a round stock Attache with it. If you're doing a lot of multi pitch, you'll notice the difference. For rappelling, it's super smooth. Between using the high or low friction orientation and adding or subtracting wraps of the Prusik, you can get any amount friction you want. I'm sure that's true of all tube devices though. I also like that it's all metal. It just feels like a more solid device than the ones with a cable. I have not tried using the Bulletproof HMS even though I have them for TR setups. I used the Camp Nimbus as a great alternative to the round stock Attache before I was able to get one of those to see what everyone raved about. |
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Will WB wrote: Pay attention to how it wears— I retired mine with about the same amount of use I’d get out of an ATC because the aluminum sides were starting to develop an edge, even though the steel contact surface had minimal wear. |
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I have an Edelrid Bulletproof HMS and really like it. But if you want to keep your rope clean get the Bulletproof bent gates for your anchor draws and your first draw. It made a huge difference for me. |
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Eli W wrote: Dang, that's too bad. Thanks for the heads up! I hadn't thought of that being an issue. |
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I use an hms bulletproof carabiner with the nordwand (bionic alpine) and really like the combo. I’ve gotten way more use out of the belay device than past aluminum devices, thought like Eli, the side plates of mine are getting worn. one thing that I really like about the nordwand is that it doesn’t heat up nearly as much as an aluminum tube device after a rappel. You can rap as fast as you want and grab the nordwand with a bare hand afterwards |