Make sure you're using two opposed carabiners for your top roping master point!

Sharing a close call as a reminder for others:

I was setting up a tree top rope anchor earlier today. I used a single HMS (pear) biner as the master point and began rappelling down the rope after completing the setup. After about 4 feet of rappelling, I looked up and noticed that the masterpoint was pressed against a protruding lip in the rock. Ok, no big deal, go back up and extend the anchor a bit. The route was slightly overhanging so I started to jug up the rope with my feet against the wall. Right before my eyes as I was jugging, the carabiner wiggled against the rock and the gate unscrewed it self. One more wiggle, and the gate was pushed open by the rock. I was now hanging on a single open carabiner. Panicking slightly, I did a big pull up on the closest hold, screwed the gate shut, and quickly rappelled to the ground with as little movement as possible. I then walked up the back side of the cliff on foot to reset the anchor. 

I've climbing sport, trad, and ice for ten years and don't ever recall discussing this topic with my climbing partners. Sometimes I used one, sometimes I used two. If I had a beefy HMS biner on hand like I did today, I generally used just one. On multipitch climbs, I always used one. 

I did a quick Google search and one of the first results is someone questioning the necessity of using two lockers. 

https://outdoors.stackexchange.com/questions/10750/is-it-ever-necessary-to-double-up-locking-carabiners

Here's the American Alpine Club's page on masterpoints and a single masterpoint biner is shown throughout. In fact, they show the exact same model of HMS biner that I have

https://americanalpineclub.org/news/tag/masterpoint

Top rope anchors are not the same as multipitch anchors. They have no backup, they are out of sight, and screw gates can open themselves easily. Don't be an idiot like me and always use two opposing carabiners for the masterpoint. I'll not be making this mistake again.

Edit in response to by far the most popular response so far, about the importance of the master point hanging free:

It's not always easy to ensure this. This was an anchor via static line tied to trees set back 30 feet from the cliff edge. The masterpoint was visually inspected to be hanging well upon set up, but once loaded, stretched the exact amount to hit an obstruction. Two inches more or less stretch in 30 feet of anchor, and this situation would not have occurred. 

It's not always possible to achieve absolutely precise masterpoint location on large anchor setups. Unless you only ever build anchors on two fixed bolts, don't assume your masterpoint will end up where you left it. Small shifts left and right can also move the master point. Bolted anchors are not universal in my area and long anchors from distant trees are the most common. The only guaranteed way of preventing this scenario is double opposed biners. 

If I had walked back down to the base of the top rope instead of rappelled, the entire top rope session would have taken place on an open carabiner. 

Personally I've never had any issues with using a single locker with tape or two non lockers with tape

Agree but mountain project called me an idiot when I brought up how top roping can be more dangerous than leading in some situations so be prepared for getting attacked.

Maybe the real lesson is about the carabineer laying across an edge.

Yan Yin wrote:

Sharing a close call as a reminder for others:

I was setting up a tree top rope anchor earlier today. I used a single HMS (pear) biner as the master point and began rappelling down the rope after completing the setup. After about 4 feet of rappelling, I looked up and noticed that the masterpoint was pressed against a protruding lip in the rock. Ok, no big deal, go back up and extend the anchor a bit. The route was slightly overhanging so I started to jug up the rope with my feet against the wall. Right before my eyes as I was jugging, the carabiner wiggled against the rock and the gate unscrewed it self. One more wiggle, and the gate was pushed open by the rock. I was now hanging on a single open carabiner. Panicking slightly, I did a big pull up on the closest hold, screwed the gate shut, and quickly rappelled to the ground with as little movement as possible. I then walked up the back side of the cliff on foot to reset the anchor. 

I've climbing sport, trad, and ice for ten years and don't ever recall discussing this topic with my climbing partners. Sometimes I used one, sometimes I used two. If I had a beefy HMS biner on hand like I did today, I generally used just one. On multipitch climbs, I always used one. 

I did a quick Google search and one of the first results is someone questioning the necessity of using two lockers. 

https://outdoors.stackexchange.com/questions/10750/is-it-ever-necessary-to-double-up-locking-carabiners

Here's the American Alpine Club's page on masterpoints and a single masterpoint biner is shown throughout. In fact, they show the exact same model of HMS biner that I have

https://americanalpineclub.org/news/tag/masterpoint

Top rope anchors are not the same as multipitch anchors. They have no backup, they are out of sight, and screw gates can open themselves easily. Don't be an idiot like me and always use two opposing carabiners for the masterpoint. I'll not be making this mistake again.

One open carabineer is still plenty strong, even for TR. Redundancy is nice though.

Your AAC link doesn’t advocate for a single unattended locker on a TR setup. These are in the context of multi-pitch anchors. An attended locker is fine for a single point of attachment. Unattended anchors should have an opposed non-locker in addition to the locker. Who is advocating for a single locker at an unattended TR anchor?

Who uses a single carabiner as a TR master point FOR THAT EXACT REASON?!

Two opposed carabiners - don't need to be lockers. 

Ryan K wrote:

Your AAC link doesn’t advocate for a single unattended locker on a TR setup. These are in the context of multi-pitch anchors. An attended locker is fine for a single point of attachment. Unattended anchors should have an opposed non-locker in addition to the locker. Who is advocating for a single locker at an unattended TR anchor?

The AAC page is not specific to multi pitch anchors. If you do a search for the word "multi" you'll see there are zero instances of this word on the page. Many of the examples are standard top rope anchor scenarios. One of the examples is a static line anchor off of set back objects, which is the exact scenario of this thread. Another example shows the opposed quickdraw sport anchor with the climber being lowered by a belayer standing on the ground, which is clearly in the context of top roping. The page is written as comprehensive survey of different masterpoint strategies applicable to all climbing scenarios including top roping. 

There is not a single example of a double opposed masterpoint on the page. If a resource is presenting something as standard practice, then it is advocating for it. 

Not Hobo Greg wrote:

You make it sound like everyone else always uses a single locker and you are now our savior, when in reality, almost everyone I know would never even consider using a single carabiner at the master point. But good on you for learning.

Not sure about "everyone". This was for some reason never taught to me when I started climbing. I've climbed for ten years with probably hundreds of climbing partners and have never had this pointed out to me. Everybody I have ever belayed has simply said "thanks for the belay". Nobody has ever said "hey I noticed you used a single biner for the masterpoint, you should really use two". I've seen plenty of anchors set by others that use a single biner. Clearly I'm not the only one who thought this was acceptable practice.

I'm glad almost everyone in you know uses double biners. Not sure if this is regional. I'm in the US north east but have also climbed a fair amount in Europe and Asia. Next time you climb with the person who isn't covered by the "almost", you should really point this out and do them the favor nobody did me. 

Yan Yin wrote:

Not sure about "everyone". This was for some reason never taught to me when I started climbing. I've climbed for ten years with probably hundreds of climbing partners and have never had this pointed out to me. Everybody I have ever belayed has simply said "thanks for the belay". Nobody has ever said "hey I noticed you used a single biner for the masterpoint, you should really use two". I've seen plenty of anchors set by others that use a single biner. Clearly I'm not the only one who thought this was acceptable practice.

I'm glad almost everyone in you know uses double biners. Not sure if this is regional. I'm in the US north east but have also climbed a fair amount in Europe and Asia. Next time you climb with the person who isn't covered by the "almost", you should really point this out and do them the favor nobody did me. 

 

I mean... it might be worth picking up the John Long Climbing Anchors Book.  Wouldn't hurt to figure out what other practices you could modify or improve upon.

Yep, I don’t find a single carabiner appropriate for a TR master or any unattended critical connection. Maybe a triple action type locker,  but not a screw lock. Two O&O non lockers or lockers, doesn’t matter. Sure, one is plenty strong enough, but only if the rope stays in! The vast majority of people I’ve climbed with have agreed with this, but occasionally I have met someone who does not. They can do whatever they want with their anchors but  that’s not something I'm on board with when I climb with them. I’ve been climbing long enough to see all kinds of strange shit happen, so my saying is that ”if you haven’t seen a locker come unlocked, you either haven’t been paying attention, or you haven’t been climbing long enough”. Once unlocked, you’re TRing on a single unlocked  carabiner.

Yan Yin wrote:

The AAC page is not specific to multi pitch anchors. If you do a search for the word "multi" you'll see there are zero instances of this word on the page. Many of the examples are standard top rope anchor scenarios. One of the examples is a static line anchor off of set back objects, which is the exact scenario of this thread. Another example shows the opposed quickdraw sport anchor with the climber being lowered by a belayer standing on the ground, which is clearly in the context of top roping. The page is written as comprehensive survey of different masterpoint strategies applicable to all climbing scenarios including top roping. 

There is not a single example of a double opposed masterpoint on the page. If a resource is presenting something as standard practice, then it is advocating for it. 

None of the anchors in your link show a top rope. Did you also think it would be ok to not use a rope? They aren't showing a TR setup. They are just talking about anchors, not what you clip to them.

As for not telling you about this, if I took a lap on someone else's TR setup (which is something I don't ever do), I think one locker at the master point is just safe enough that I wouldn't bring it up unless the person asked me for a critique. I only tell people about issues that will lead to imminent injury.

Just wondering, do you also clip in to the rope with a locker? Or belay through your hard points? Lotta weird old timers out there that catch noobs under the guise of mentorship, but really just pass on out of date, irrelevant info as gospel.

J C wrote:

None of the anchors in your link show a top rope. Did you also think it would be ok to not use a rope? They aren't showing a TR setup. They are just talking about anchors, not what you clip to them.

As for not telling you about this, if I took a lap on someone else's TR setup (which is something I don't ever do), I think one locker at the master point is just safe enough that I wouldn't bring it up unless the person asked me for a critique. I only tell people about issues that will lead to imminent injury.

Just wondering, do you also clip in to the rope with a locker? Or belay through your hard points? Lotta weird old timers out there that catch noobs under the guise of mentorship, but really just pass on out of date, irrelevant info as gospel.

No, I don't clip to the rope with a locker or belay through the hard points. I've seen people doing the first, never the second. Did people use to do this? However I do rappel with my device clipped directly to my harness instead of extending it on a sling. It's been pointed out to me that extending is now the new accepted best practice; but I've not changed over. Someone once tried to convince me to change over in the middle of a multipitch, which annoyed me as that is not the time to be experimenting with a new rappel system for the very first time. 

That AAC article isn't just talking about anchors in general. It's specifically about the master point and shelf. Their examples 1, 2, 4, 6, and 7 are absolutely standard top rope anchor setups. Photo 6 shows a quad on two bolts, which is the most commonly recommended single pitch top rope anchor setup by professional guides in my region. Photo 7 shows a tied off sliding x, which is another absolutely common top rope anchor setup. Photo 3 is an equalized three point cordelette trad anchor, which is what I personally use the most frequently. 

I'm not sure how you're coming to the conclusion that the article is specifically limiting itself to multipitch anchors. In fact not one of the trad anchors in the article contain upward pull pieces, which is absolutely essential for multipitch anchor scenarios and can quickly prove fatal for both climber if foregone. Not including upward protection in a multipitch trad anchor is a significantly greater danger than using a single carabiner for the master point. Due to this critical omission, I think this article is pretty much purely single pitch focused. Not sure how you and I can look at the same article and come to completely opposite conclusions. 

You have never climbed on another climber's top rope, and in fact you refuse to do so on principle? Unfortunately this is not an option for most people. Unless one is always the strongest climber in a group, one will always have to climb on someone else's top rope at some point. 

Yan Yin wrote:

...upward pull pieces, which is absolutely essential for multipitch anchor scenarios...

No they're not.  It's all situational. 

Yan Yin wrote: …I think this article is pretty much purely single pitch focused.

This AAC article was written by the current AMGA National Discipline Instructor for their Single Pitch Instructor program. The SPI program is adamant about a 2 carabiner master point when leaving the anchor unattended while top roping.

I think the misunderstanding in your context is where the “anchor” stops and the various adaptations for different set-ups begin. In this context the anchor is bringing together all of the different pieces and stops at the “master point.” The carabiner is used to show where the master point is located (the carabiner in and of itself is not the master point). You’ll also notice that there is never a free flowing rope through a single locker. It’s either just held there to demonstrate where the master point is, or there is clove hitch / tether clipped in. After the anchor is built, one can set it up for a top managed site, bottom managed site (what most folks think of as the standard set-up for “top roping”), a multi pitch anchor (if appropriate), an anchor for a fixed line, etc.

As a bit of an aside - one locker is perfectly appropriate if a single pitch climb is top managed (the belayer is bringing up the climber from the top) and in fact is quite difficult to incorporate two carabiners since you are usually using a Munter hitch / grigri / ATC in guide mode to bring them up.

However, if you are just looking at the photos of this article - it can be very ambiguous!

Yan Yin wrote:

Not sure about "everyone". This was for some reason never taught to me when I started climbing. I've climbed for ten years with probably hundreds of climbing partners and have never had this pointed out to me. Everybody I have ever belayed has simply said "thanks for the belay". Nobody has ever said "hey I noticed you used a single biner for the masterpoint, you should really use two". I've seen plenty of anchors set by others that use a single biner. Clearly I'm not the only one who thought this was acceptable practice.

I'm glad almost everyone in you know uses double biners. Not sure if this is regional. I'm in the US north east but have also climbed a fair amount in Europe and Asia. Next time you climb with the person who isn't covered by the "almost", you should really point this out and do them the favor nobody did me. 

This is wild to me. Double lockers or triple non lockers opposite and opposed are the standard everywhere. I knew this from the first day I climbed outside, so this sounds like a major lapse in education. Climbing for a year, alright, but for 10 years? That lapse is kind of on you. There is SO much free educational material out there that you cannot just place that blame on the others who “didn’t say anything”. I don’t want to chastise you, but please take your saftey into your own hands.

Greg is also from the east coast, and yes, would 100% call that out if he saw it. Guides tend to be pretty keen on averting safety issues at the crag.

I applaud OP's good intention to share their lesson with the community. Some people will benefit. 

I agree with one comment above -- the moral of the story is probably more about being aware of the relationship between your biner(s) and the rock.  When you place a biner, whether for anchor or for lead protection, be mindful of all the possibilities how it might interact with the rock around it. Most of the time, it takes less than a second to evaluate; occasionally, it helps to move your biner(s) around to simulate different pull angles and extend/shorten with a sling as needed to make sure the gate does not get pushed against a nearby rock edge.

Climb safe and have fun!

Yan Yin wrote:

The AAC page is not specific to multi pitch anchors. If you do a search for the word "multi" you'll see there are zero instances of this word on the page. Many of the examples are standard top rope anchor scenarios. One of the examples is a static line anchor off of set back objects, which is the exact scenario of this thread. Another example shows the opposed quickdraw sport anchor with the climber being lowered by a belayer standing on the ground, which is clearly in the context of top roping. The page is written as comprehensive survey of different masterpoint strategies applicable to all climbing scenarios including top roping. 

There is not a single example of a double opposed masterpoint on the page. If a resource is presenting something as standard practice, then it is advocating for it. 

They should have been more clear, I do agree with you on that. But, as an FYI, AAC is not advocating for this. 

I always TR with two O&O lockers. Even when I can see them. (One exception: 1 lead and 1 clean by follower. Usually use two draws) 

I’m not sure where I first heard it but I was told two lockers is one of the greatest increases in safety you can achieve with the lowest amount of effort.

Just think, what other scenario increases safety that much by only bringing/using 2 locking biners? You already need 2 biners (never knew people TR’ed on 1) so might as well use two lockers. Not like you don’t have them. Not like you need to save weight for a TR. 

If you guys like two carabiners, you should try three!

If I am going to deliberately set something up as a top rope to be used repeatedly, I prefer three steel opposed non locking biners for the masterpoint. Steel for the increased wear, 3 of them not just for the redundancy but because it makes a much flatter and smoother bend in the rope and the rope feeds a lot smoother and easily.  I thought more people did this, but reading here it doesn't seem that way. As always, MP is a rather skewed perspective on climbing.