No spike on North Machine

You who are climbing on the Grivel North Machine in alpine terrain (ie not pure ice climbs, but snow/ice/rock), Do you wish you had a proper spike instead of that trekking pole tip? Is this a reason NOT to get this tool in your opinion?

Thanks

I've been using these tools as my primarily alpine climbing tool for the last 6-ish years (North Machine, and before that Matrix Tech, which have the same spike) and it's been fine.  I can't really think of any scenario where the carbide tip didn't work, but a short "proper spike" would have worked, in a way that would be significantly meaningful for safety or movement.

Kyle Tarry wrote:

I've been using these tools as my primarily alpine climbing tool for the last 6-ish years (North Machine, and before that Tech Machines, which have the same spike) and it's been fine.  I can't really think of any scenario where the carbide tip didn't work, but a short "proper spike" would have worked, in a way that would be significantly meaningful for safety or movement.

Unless the Tech Machine has significantly changed, then it does not have the same carbide spike. It has a clip-in spike that I'm assuming is steel or aluminum.

Kyle Tarry wrote:

I've been using these tools as my primarily alpine climbing tool for the last 6-ish years (North Machine, and before that Tech Machines, which have the same spike) and it's been fine.  I can't really think of any scenario where the carbide tip didn't work, but a short "proper spike" would have worked, in a way that would be significantly meaningful for safety or movement.

Is it more annoying to plunge on steep snow slopes than a Quark/viper, etc ? Probably no worse than offset handles right? I used to have a pair of Matrix tech for a short minute, but only ever used them on ice/dry tooling. I find myself now with Nomics, but wanting something to use in mixed terrain and not just waterfalls. 

Sean M wrote:

Unless the Tech Machine has significantly changed, then it does not have the same carbide spike. It has a clip-in spike that I'm assuming is steel or aluminum.

Whoops, thanks for pointing that out!!  I meant Matrix Tech but my brain-to-hand connection is dubious. :)  I edited the post to fix it.

DeLa Cruce wrote:

Is it more annoying to plunge on steep snow slopes than a Quark/viper, etc ? Probably no worse than offset handles right?

I don't think plunge-ability has anything to do with the spike, honestly.  That's probably just a function of how big/chunky the pinky rest and grip is?  I suspect that all these tools are about the same, although I certainly haven't done a formal test.  The newer Quarks have that little folding pinkie rest, which theoretically makes them plunge better, but that might just be marketing.  In any case, in snow firm enough that these things matter, I feel like the climbing is pretty secure anyway.

I also have north machines (carbon) and use them for alpine stuff as well as ice. I actually feel the carbide tip grabs rock a bit better than a straight spike and has little/no difference on snow/ice. It’s a non-issue for me. 

Thanks for the info, good to hear :-)

Graham Johnson wrote:

I also have north machines (carbon) and use them for alpine stuff as well as ice. I actually feel the carbide tip grabs rock a bit better than a straight spike and has little/no difference on snow/ice. It’s a non-issue for me. 

I agree.  The carbide tip is much better on rock and no worse on ice and neve than steel spikes.  On snow, the tip of the spike doesn’t matter.  It is the design of the handle/pommel that makes the biggest difference on snow.  

The flip up pommel on the current Quark is noticeably nicer for plunging through crusty snow, as it requires a little bit less energy to plunge and remove than the fixed pommel of the North Machine.  

Yeah, I dont think I would be any worse off with that style (grivel machine) than my nomics. As my interests shift to more alpine ice and find myself exploring those environments more, I value different features than just for pure water ice, such as even hammer and adze. That thread about North Machine hammer has me a bit weary…

It’s not an issue

Since Grivel finds it necessary to put massive spikes on the head of the picks, I find myself plunging down with the picks instead of piolet canne. Which is a shame cause I like the carbide tip and would like to just use that. It’s annoying to hold the picks with all those spikes digging into your gloves/hands. Could always file the spikes down, especially since they get in the way of ice features when cleaning the tool.

Christian Donkey wrote:

Since Grivel finds it necessary to put massive spikes on the head of the picks, I find myself plunging down with the picks instead of piolet canne. Which is a shame cause I like the carbide tip and would like to just use that. It’s annoying to hold the picks with all those spikes digging into your gloves/hands. Could always file the spikes down, especially since they get in the way of ice features when cleaning the tool.

The teeth on the head of the picks are really only useful for inverted caning (with the Tech Machine).  For the North Machine, there is practically no reason not to file down the spikes on the head.  5 minutes or work with a file makes the picks much more comfortable to hold.  

Karl Henize wrote:

The teeth on the head of the picks are really only useful for inverted caning (with the Tech Machine).  For the North Machine, there is practically no reason not to file down the spikes on the head.  5 minutes or work with a file makes the picks much more comfortable to hold.  

I always thought the "mohawk" was for stein pulls which really only makes sense on highly shaped tools but they all share picks.  It's a lot easier to file the teeth down when the application doesn't need it than it is to add the teeth for dry tooling/competition.

Jason4Too wrote:

I always thought the "mohawk" was for stein pulls which really only makes sense on highly shaped tools but they all share picks.  It's a lot easier to file the teeth down when the application doesn't need it than it is to add the teeth for dry tooling/competition.

In my experience, the teeth above the head do not make much of a difference for stein pulls on rock.  There might be rare natural stein-pulls that require teeth, but I have yet to encounter one.  

They make a make a much more noticeable difference on softer, smoother surfaces (ice or the plywood used for competition style climbing).  

North Machines are definitely not a great choice for hard drytooling, so I doubt many people are actually using them for very difficult steinpulls.  So, the main reason to keep the teeth would be for inverted caning.