Ways of getting ropes unstuck

Climbing a mixed gully last weekend we go our double ropes stuck while abseiling.
Context: rappel on trees, way on the side of a narrow, near vertical gully / We still had both end of the ropes in hand

Solutions we had (IMHO):
1/ Not getting the ropes stuck (doh... I said it before you...)
2/ Climbing back up (same rope or we even had another set of ropes since we were 2 parties)
3/ Changing the angle of the pull to see if it was enough to get is unstuck.
This would have mean going back inside the gully and would have been very time consuming to go back on the side where the trees were

In the heat of the moment I came up with another solution: To pull harder.
Building a 3 to 1 using my microtraxion and a Tibloc.
It worked perfectly ! Took us 5 minutes to get the rope unstuck. 

What would you have done?
Bonus point for those coming up with a different solution that the ones I listed. 

Pulling harder can lead to rockfall. I did that on cannon cliff one time and destroyed the rope and pulled down a coffee table sized flake which would absolutely have killed us if it hit us. YMMV

Eric Chabot wrote:

Pulling harder can lead to rockfall. I did that on cannon cliff one time and destroyed the rope and pulled down a coffee table sized flake which would absolutely have killed us if it hit us. YMMV

You re right but in our case we were 20 meters on the right of our starting point when we were pulling, also  the gully was mostly ice an snow. So considering all this I estimated that rock fall risk was close to 0. I m pretty sure the rope was stuck in bushes

What was the anchor your rope ran trough? You were ice climbing?

I'd bet- thin double ropes, some wetness, and a really thin quicklink created an angle and friction, or the quicklink/rappel ring was not oriented correct.

Your solution: replace quicklink/rap ring with something that has a larger diameter, thicker ropes, or renewed dry treating (I know your question was about getting the ropes unstuck, but it's best not to get them stuck in the first place)

You said you were rapping off trees, was there webbing and an anchor? Or just double ropes wrapped around a tree?

What knot did you use to join the ropes together? If it was anything but the UIAA-recommended offset overhand AKA Euro Death Knot, consider this a lesson to learn from.

Eric Chabot wrote:

Pulling harder can lead to rockfall. I did that on cannon cliff one time and destroyed the rope and pulled down a coffee table sized flake which would absolutely have killed us if it hit us. YMMV

So you're the one who pulled down the old man, SMH

I've never heard of someone simply "pulling harder" to get ropes unstuck. my guess is you just got very lucky.

If i was in your situation, with rope ends in hand, i would probably just climb the rope...

Eric Chabot wrote:

Pulling harder can lead to rockfall. I did that on cannon cliff one time and destroyed the rope and pulled down a coffee table sized flake which would absolutely have killed us if it hit us. YMMV

I had a similar experience in the Bugaboos years ago.  In our case, the coffee table-sized block was (or more properly, used to be) the rappel anchor itself.

If the ropes don't budge when pulled, a classic mistake has been made, namely not having the first person down test whether the ropes will pull and if not, making adjustments while someone is still up at the anchor.  Most of us learn this the hard way, as I did in the Bugs. (Then I messed up and had to relearn the lesson in the Wind Rivers---that time we knew better than to start winching the rope and just reascended.) Sometimes the last person down has to move the knot past a lip or past some bushes---another action that will save the party from an epic later.

Nowadays, there are so many prefabricated anchors that the tendency is to assume there won't be any problems with the actual pull, and some rappel protocols based on these assumptions make it impossible for the first person down to test the pull, because subsequent party members have already attached their rap devices. So testing whether the ropes will pull is no longer a habit for most parties and maybe isn't even on the radar.  Nonetheless, in less manicured terrain, it is still important to test whether the ropes will pull before everyone is down.

curt86iroc wrote:

I've never heard of someone simply "pulling harder" to get ropes unstuck. my guess is you just got very lucky.

If i was in your situation, with rope ends in hand, i would probably just climb the rope...

As I said I didn"t just "pull harder" but used a Z pully system with a microtraxion which is very strong.
If your rope is stuck in branches that may be enough, apparently it was enough in my case at least. 

For knot I used a EDK as usual. The rope what just around a tree and that is it (no cordelette, no maillon etc...)
Ropes were two Beal Gully so yes thin ropes and probably a bit wet as well since it was a mixed route with a lot of snow.
The point (again) is not how and why the ropes were stuck but how to get it unstuck

In this situation you could try pulling on the other strand to get the rope moving again.  After moving the knot a few feet flip the original pull line to reposition the path of the rope.  If you rapped off the tree you could potentially pull the knot around the tree or you could then re-pull on the original line.  

Flipping the rope is very often useful even if you just have one end of the rope.  Look at the path the rope takes to the knot and try to flip the rope so the knot moves to one side or the other of the obstruction.  Try flipping the rope immediately when you fell resistance to pulling the line.  Once you pull hard on the knot and jam it into a crack it is very difficult to get it free from below. 

Make sure you do not have any twists in the rope.  This used to be a big problem when climbers rappelled on figure 8 devices but it still happens today.  Once the twist gets to the anchor it can stop make the rope very difficult to pull.  

The rappeler should pay attention to obstacles and try to position the rope to avoid them.

Once upon a time I managed to get a rope unstuck by pulling harder using a similar setup as the OP.  We could tell the end of the rope had gotten tangled in a tree off to the side.  We pulled hard enough to break the branch and get the rope back.  Sadly that was the 3rd bad pull that evening one of which we had to re-ascend the rope to get get it unstuck.  It took us so long to do the rappels and the walkout was so treacherous in the dark without lights that we decided to spend the night at the base of the climb.   I learned a lot that day/night.

Having the ropes directly around a tree can create a lot of friction, depending on the type of bark.  The pull can also damage the bark.

The solution is to bring tied slings if you anticipate rappelling from non-chain anchors.

As Rich said, the first person down should be testing the pull if the anchor is not chains / rings.

Clint Cummins wrote:

Having the ropes directly around a tree can create a lot of friction, depending on the type of bark.  The pull can also damage the bark.

The solution is to bring tied slings if you anticipate rappelling from non-chain anchors.

As Rich said, the first person down should be testing the pull if the anchor is not chains / rings.

The pull will damage the bark (especially if you are winching on it with a 3:1 system and the ropes are wet.). There's a bunch of grooved trees in the Gunks to prove this. Maybe it will kill the tree, maybe just stress it and/or provide an avenue for parasites to enter. Maybe it will damage the rope. Maybe it will pull something down on the party. Whatever the case, in today's increasingly populous ciimbing world, rapping directly off a tree is bad for the tree, bad for relations with land managers, and significantly increases pulling resistance, so is bad for the rapping party even if they aren't bombarded or left with a core-shot rope. (And ps, if the rope gets cut but still stays stuck, then you'll have to ascend a rope with an unknown level of damage.)

Next time come prepared and leave a sling and rap ring. 

Fabien M wrote: The point (again) is not how and why the ropes were stuck but how to get it unstuck

I don't think you can have a discussion about getting the rope unstuck without discussing how and why the ropes are stuck, because the best approach is going to depend on how and why the ropes got stuck. As most people have said, I think that simply pulling harder (which is really what making a 3:1 pulley amounts to) is usually not a good idea. I have done this before when I could clearly see that the rope was stuck on some branches and that pulling harder would not have any other negative consequences (such as rockfall). For the situation you describe, it seems likely that you were just having difficulty pulling the rope due to the friction between the rope and the tree you were rapping off of so this approach worked fine. 

For other situations where just pulling harder isn't the answer,  I would try the following: change the direction of pull by either moving to the side or backing up further, making sure the rope strands aren't twisted, making sure the strand you are pulling isn't on top of the other strand and pinching it against the rock, and trying to flick the rope out of whatever constriction it is trapped in.

After that I would be resigned to ascending the rope and dealing with it. 

I have also used the microtraxion 3:1 haul to pull down ropes that were giving me a hard time.

Once on the water streak rappels getting down from the ginger cracks/unimpeachable area. 

And once on the Rainbow Wall Original Route pitch 4.

The first time, the ropes had simply twisted around each other inexplicably causing too much friction. Rockfall wouldn’t have been an issue in this location.

The second time, the tail had gone in a crack. Rock fall could have potentially been an issue, but I don’t recall specifically enough. This is a good thing to remember next time I find myself with a stuck rope and considering “pulling harder.”

Thank you. 

Fabien M wrote:

The point (again) is not how and why the ropes were stuck but how to get it unstuck

The point you're missing is that knowing how the ropes were stuck is absolutely key to getting them unstuck.

Rope running directly around a tree is an absolute climbing fail.  

Hope my explanation is clear (English is not my first language): when a rope is stuck first thing I try is to make a whipping motion with the tail end(s) This will send an arc traveling up the rope, with the purpose to create some slack in the rope and get it unstuck.

Can be especially helpful when your rope is caught behind something (like a protruding piece of rock, a bush etc.)

Carolina wrote:

Rope running directly around a tree is an absolute climbing fail.  

Says who? Do you have any solid reference to back that up?

Fabien M wrote:

Says who? Do you have any solid reference to back that up?

Common sense. 

Not Hobo Greg wrote:

Literally talked about upthread. It WILL kill trees, hence even the anti-bolt bastion of the Gunks has curtailed tree anchors for raps.

Sure, do it once and it’s ok, but climbing is too popular to expect it’ll only happen once.

True, the "anti-bolt bastion" has had to rethink tree anchors in the face of greatly increased demographics.  But no one but the clueless was putting ropes directly around trees, and now all of a sudden we're seeing an increase in that behavior.

Long rappells using double 70s tied is a cluster and tiresome!  Its almost always faster to go with shorter single rope raps.   Less rope to tangle and no knots to catch, ultimately less friction.  
Rappelling 20m off to the side as stated adds significantly more friction and obstacles.  Try to position straighter and keep a line of sight up the hill to see potential issues.  Another idea, if you can safely position the ropes higher, say slung on a stout limb 4ft off the snow/ground, there’s significantly less drag and benefit of less used/wasted material.  Finally, in less than vertical, sometimes using running body weight with a few feet of slack on the other (tied off) end breaks it free.