"Typical" ice screw rack for alpine

I recognize this is going to be highly variable depending on the climb in question and the conditions.

I'm looking at expanding my screw rack with a few ULs for alpine use, what sizes do you find the most generally useful in the alpine? Near future use will most likely be New Zealand, the Cascades, and potentially the Palisades.

Based on those zones, I'm thinking you have glacier climbing in mind? I often rack 16cm screws for that, plus a longer one for threads.

3X 10cm screws, plus one Scepter.

(Sorry Ryan, you can’t really boil down a standard rack for a huge variety of routes on multiple continents.  I have been racking up with stubbies and pitons for the last few months here in the PNW; and in a few more months, a typical rack might be all 13s and 17s.  It’s HUGELY dependent on the route, and style of climbing.)

Kyle Tarry wrote:

3X 10cm screws, plus one Scepter.

(Sorry Ryan, you can’t really boil down a standard rack for a huge variety of routes on multiple continents.  I have been racking up with stubbies and pitons for the last few months here in the PNW; and in a few more months, a typical rack might be all 13s and 17s.  It’s HUGELY dependent on the route, and style of climbing.)

Yeah now worries, I kind of expected that. What on Earth is a scepter?

EDIT: Ah, I'm guessing you meant a spectre?

consistent with above posters, I roll with stubbies, 13s & 16s, and a v-thread drill.  I augment with wart-hogs & spectres because these are effective placed in rock or turf as well as in ice.  throw in a few nuts and a couple of link cams, and you have the skeleton upon which I will build out a more targeted alpine/mixed rack.

fwiw = you didn't ask, but I'll offer anyway:  I also carry a real piton hammer.  The so-called hammer heads on modern bent-shaft ice tools I find to be pretty much worthless...  for me the savings in frustration more than justifies the weight penalty -  for an "ultralight" rig on a "moderate" route, I'll go with a single modern tool and an old Forrest Mjollnir with the Skye pick.  If you can find one at ebay or some hardgeezer estate sale, its worth whatever absurd price you'll find asked... you'll  have to find a local blacksmith to replicate the Skye pick if you hope to replace it when it wears down -- but for me its worth the clusterfork

-Haireball

After reading all I could about testing of ice anchors, I relieved myself of carrying a 21 cm screw for threads. So now I take a 16 cm for threads, then whatever mix of 16/13/10/8 I think I need. Generally I wish I owned more stubbies and fewer big screws. 

Curt Haire wrote:

consistent with above posters, I roll with stubbies, 13s & 16s, and a v-thread drill.  I augment with wart-hogs & spectres because these are effective placed in rock or turf as well as in ice.  throw in a few nuts and a couple of link cams, and you have the skeleton upon which I will build out a more targeted alpine/mixed rack.

fwiw = you didn't ask, but I'll offer anyway:  I also carry a real piton hammer.  The so-called hammer heads on modern bent-shaft ice tools I find to be pretty much worthless...  for me the savings in frustration more than justifies the weight penalty -  for an "ultralight" rig on a "moderate" route, I'll go with a single modern tool and an old Forrest Mjollnir with the Skye pick.  If you can find one at ebay or some hardgeezer estate sale, its worth whatever absurd price you'll find asked... you'll  have to find a local blacksmith to replicate the Skye pick if you hope to replace it when it wears down -- but for me its worth the clusterfork

-Haireball

I hope you only bring the hammer if you're also bringing pins? Or is it just for the warthogs and ice pitons?

I think there is two very different scenarios here: 

1/ Mostly rock route with glacier access: I take  two to three 13 cms screws
2/ Mixed climbs: depending of the topo I take anything between 3 to 12 ice screws of different lengths

Ryan Mac wrote:

Yeah now worries, I kind of expected that. What on Earth is a scepter?

EDIT: Ah, I'm guessing you meant a spectre?

Yeah sorry, got autocorrected.  DMM makes one too, theirs is called a "Bulldog" I believe; I think they are especially popular with those crazy Scots.

Are you wondering what ice screws to buy for a general rack, or specifically looking for what lengths of UL screws?  If it's the latter, the weight savings are highest with the longest screw lengths, so if you carry a 21cm v-thread screw, that's an obvious place to save some weight.  Then 17's, if you carry those, and then 13's.  If the question is about what to carry on routes, that can vary a ton and will need a more detailed conversation.

The screws I own are 2X 10cm, 6X 13cm (4X UL), 4X 17cm (2X UL), 1X UL 21 cm.  What I rack is highly route dependent.

J C wrote:

After reading all I could about testing of ice anchors, I relieved myself of carrying a 21 cm screw for threads. So now I take a 16 cm for threads, then whatever mix of 16/13/10/8 I think I need. Generally I wish I owned more stubbies and fewer big screws. 

I can see where you are coming from but I still like a 21 for threads. Main reason being I rarely intersect *all the way* at the back. Then I don’t worry too much if I cross a little closer and still have a good 16-19 section. But I suck at drilling in threads. Just my thought. 

J C wrote:

After reading all I could about testing of ice anchors, I relieved myself of carrying a 21 cm screw for threads. So now I take a 16 cm for threads, then whatever mix of 16/13/10/8 I think I need. Generally I wish I owned more stubbies and fewer big screws. 

I hope you only bring the hammer if you're also bringing pins? Or is it just for the warthogs and ice pitons?

sorry, I thought I'd been clear that the warthog & spectre/bulldog require a hammer to place, whether in ice, turf, or rock.     yes, I often carry true rock pitons as well, but certainly not always.... what I had also hoped to make clear is my opinion that the Mjollnir, ancient & primitive as it is, is  a surprisingly effective ice tool on WI5.   Grivel resurrected Ed Leeper's Z-pitons couple years back.  wish someone would do the same for Forrest's Mjollnir

-Haireball

If i was on a route that  required  pins and specter's i would have a real  hammer.  Mojlnar is a  nasty  knuckle  basher for  climbing but I  get the  versatility.  I would not  forego  bringing  both x Dreams.  Both x Dreams and  th hammer  if the  climbing is hard and  requires a hammer. My ice rack is  two 7cm, six 10cm, six 13 two  16 and two  21. All the  13 through 21 are  ultralight.  Number of each screw  brought on climb  depends on the climb and  conditions. 

I totally understand bringing a hammer if you are planning to place more than a couple pins as lead pro, but how often are you guys doing that? I'd guess it depends a lot on rock type. The mountains out west aren't made of limestone, so it seems more common that a couple pins or spectres are brought "just in case" or to use in bail anchors. So if you're only taking three pins, they really get heavy if you throw in the hammer too.

I haven't  carried any  iron in winter for at least a  decade  but I  don't climb  anything  cutting  edge..

I typically bring 3-4 pins depending on the venue and anticipated type of climbing (i.e. trad mixed), but I don't bring an additional hammer. Just using the tool is fine in my experience (not great, but fine). The pins typically come when I'm climbing new routes or big/obscure things. Otherwise, they're route specific (ex. there's a place or two for them on Bird Brain Boulevard that might not otherwise protect).

Typical depends a lot on which route and where. In the Canadian Rockies, it can be anywhere from 3-10.

Something like the NF of Athabasca though, is almost exclusively ice screws for pro. You could take as many as you would ice climbing depending on your comfort with run outs. 

Ryan Never climbs wrote:

isnt it 6-9? 

If that’s a reference to the Oilers/Flames game last night, well done.

If not, meh. 

Never heard of him.