Durable-ish shell pants

I'm averaging 2-3 years out of my ice climbing shell pants.  Which is pretty ridiculous since I'm completely the weekend warrior type.   The pair I'm on now are 2.5 seasons old and I hope the K-Tape holding them together makes it to the end of this season before they go to the garbage bin.  This is amounts to maybe 50 days of total use, probably less, mostly ice climbing with a bit of mixed and ski touring.  These are slightly older Rab "Mutzag" pants made from eVent.  So reputable brand, flagship product, but they have new holes in them every day I'm out, plus the membrane is visibly delaminated and the inside fabric is worn to hell.  Before that I got 2 or 3 seasons out of a set of Rab Neoshell short-bib style pants before they were also totally swiss-cheesed.  Which is a damn shame because, if you can forgive the lack of durability, both of these were great shell pants - good fit, light, easy to actually climb in, ventilated really well, etc.

Goretex is offering fabrics that are at least marketed as more durable.  I might order the Montbell Alpine Pant or the Mountain Equipment Tupliak Atmo.   I just want a hardshell pant that I can actually climb in, unlike the stiff and heavy goretex pants of yesteryear.   Open to other product suggestions too.   Unless that suggestion is to get softshells.  Because I already have softshells, and they last forever, because they never leave my closet.  

what softshell are you using?  since I went to schoeller dryskin extreme thirty years ago, I've not carried a hardshell pant except for longer expedition-style trips.  i've been getting about ten active seasons out of schoeller dryskin pants - just started on my fourth pair.  other softshell fabrics have proven less impressive for me, and depending on what you've tried, I can understand your resistance -- I''ve had softshells of other fabrics that I won't even wear for townie use.  If you've tried the schoeller and didn't like it, then I apologize for wasting your time.  but if you havent...

-Haireball

It doesn't really matter which membrane technology (Gore, eVent, Neoshell) you choose if your problem is holes. Look for a higher denier face fabric. Those Mountain Equipment pants you're looking at are 30d which is basically puffy jacket shell territory so I wouldn't get your hopes up. Looks like the Montbell might be 70d. Arc'teryx's SV line is usually 80d. You'll probably consider them stiff and heavy though. Seems you want to have your cake and eat it too.

If you are actually worried about your repairs falling apart you should sew the holes shut, then apply some nice flexible fabric tape over them.

The key to getting it to last is to trash it on day one.  
have some 20 yr old Alpha SV bibs still going strong. On their maiden voyage, only hrs old, on a trip to Canada I was talking them up and my partners were envious as we sharpened axes on the tail gate of my truck. Just clipped axes to the pack and was shutting everything up when the pack rotated off the tailgate and a razor sharp axe tip neatly sliced down my new bibs. You could hear a pin drop as we all just stared open mouthed at what just happened. Then we all bust out laughing. All you could do. Anyway, got em repaired and they’ve been perfect since.  Worth the money spent  

That said, last decade or so, when climbing, all I wear are soft shells 95% of the time.     Only time I really wear hard shells anymore is on the sailboat in a storm.  

Curt Haire wrote:

what softshell are you using?  since I went to schoeller dryskin extreme thirty years ago, I've not carried a hardshell pant except for longer expedition-style trips.  i've been getting about ten active seasons out of schoeller dryskin pants - just started on my fourth pair.  other softshell fabrics have proven less impressive for me, and depending on what you've tried, I can understand your resistance -- I''ve had softshells of other fabrics that I won't even wear for townie use.  If you've tried the schoeller and didn't like it, then I apologize for wasting your time.  but if you havent...

-Haireball

Right now I have some OR Trailblazers that I use every now and then for fair weather spring and summer skiing.   

Curt, do you have a particular set of schoeller dryskin extreme pants you like?

I've owned half a dozen summer softshell trousers over the years and I use them a lot, for summer climbing.    But for winter climbing I've decided I prefer hardshells.  Maybe it's just the selection where I usually shop, but the "winter" softshells I've tried are mostly cut like a set of Levis.  I need something that it cut high enough that I can tuck my mid layer in, raise my arm all the way over my head (to swing tools) and not have the layers pop out and leave me with cold spots.  There just seems to be a lot more "short bib" style pants on the market in hardshells vs. softshells.  I also want a pretty trim lower leg.  Some "bell bottom" shell pants fit ski boots but will make it hard to see your feet ice climbing, an inevitably catch crampons.    There are a lot more hardshells that check my boxes.  

The one set of winter climbing softshells that I've owned and liked were older Patagonia Mixmasters.  They were a fleece-lined softshell short bib.  They were heavy as sin and not very weatherproof, but at least they were cut with actual winter climbing in mind.  

jdejace wrote:

It doesn't really matter which membrane technology (Gore, eVent, Neoshell) you choose if your problem is holes. Look for a higher denier face fabric. Those Mountain Equipment pants you're looking at are 30d which is basically puffy jacket shell territory so I wouldn't get your hopes up. Looks like the Montbell might be 70d. Arc'teryx's SV line is usually 80d. You'll probably consider them stiff and heavy though. Seems you want to have your cake and eat it too.

If you are actually worried about your repairs falling apart you should sew the holes shut, then apply some nice flexible fabric tape over them.

yup!  I extend the product life with a baseball stitch & smear the repair with aquaseal...  the garment gets retired when I run out of base fabric to stitch back together... sure, I look like shit, but as my long-time partners joke "why waste lipstick on a pig?"

-Haireball

jdejace wrote:

Seems you want to have your cake and eat it too.

Yes please 

Jake - I  went through three pair of Mammut Courmeyeur, and loved them, but the most recent pair did not hold up nearly as well as the earlier ones, so I'd offer that recommend with a caveat.  Can't tell what they changed, but the difference in durability is noticeable.  Had good experience with a Black Diamond pant, too, but don't recall the model name.

Your concerns about fit give me pause, though.  Full disclosure:  I am exceptionally shortwaisted (basically wear my belt around my armpits), so I don't share your "exposure" concern.  Given that reservation, I'd look for a high-waist or bib style pant of Schoeller Dryskin Extreme.  I do agree with your preference for trim ankle fit, and in some cases have resolved the "bell-bottom" problem with a cheap made-in-hell trim-fitting old-school gaiter -- pretty much a "disposable ankle cuff" -- ebay.

hope this helps

-Haireball

I have the montbell alpine pants. I think they're excellent. I've only used them 6 days on ice and have developed one small hole just outside of the instep patches, but my front points were also razor sharp. Short of Kevlar fabric, I'm not sure anything can withstand steel blades designed to penetrate bullet ice. The cut of the pants is slimmer than my OR cirques which is hugely appreciated for walking, but the cuffs still fit over my ski boots with an inner elastic sleeve. The thigh pockets are reachable under a harness and the zippers are angled, making them much easier to open one-handed. The fabric is also stretchy and I think they may take over in scenarios where I used my softshells previously. I've never felt my movement to be constrained.

I agree that denier is everything for puncture/abrasion resistance. I have a couple punctures in my old gore-tex pro jacket. Nothing is impervious. Decathlon makes some cheap shell pants that I think have been used on Ben Nevis.  ME Karakoram (currently on sale on backcountry) pant is also much cheaper than the Tupilak and might be an option if you work through pants that quickly. 

All i can say is avoid OR, specifically the 'archangel' bibs and jacket. Worst outdoor clothing piece ive ever bought in everyway. A lot wrong with it but the worst was i wore them on a rainy ski tour and got so soaked that it broke my beacon and phone from water damage.

Got my patagucci mixed guide softshell hybrid pants. They do very nicely, but there is room for improvement.