Safest Bowline Variation?

As I slowly get fatter and my knots slowly get harder to untie every time I fall on them, I’ve been thinking about just switching over to tying in with a bowline as opposed to an 8 with a Yosemite Finish. However, unlike a figure 8, the bowline has several finishes, none of which I can seem to find a clear cut answer on which is the best/safest.

Obviously, tying off tail of a single bowline with a barrel knot is the bare minimum, but is there anything that you’d say “this is what I do/would go to every time”? Double with backup? Single with Yosemite finish? Double with Yosemite finish? Hmmm.

Retraced bowline. Tie a regular bowline through your harness and retrace it by going through your tie in points again and then retrace the knot, much like a figure 8. I usually add a Yosemite finish so you get the tail out of the way. Once you tie it, you realize how much would have to go wrong for it to untie itself. With Yosemite finish it feels completely bomber and always unties easily after big falls.

Any locked bowline, but specifically Lees locked bowline ends up really nice, clean, and is simple. 

Rob P wrote:

Retraced bowline. Tie a regular bowline through your harness and retrace it by going through your tie in points again and then retrace the knot, much like a figure 8. I usually add a Yosemite finish so you get the tail out of the way. Once you tie it, you realize how much would have to go wrong for it to untie itself. With Yosemite finish it feels completely bomber and always unties easily after big falls.

I use this knot on any sport climb that I know I'm going to be taking some big falls on. It's absurdly easy to untie while also being very confidence inspiring. Somehow both of those coexist in this knot.

I typically use a double bowline with a yosemite finish and then back that up again with your normal backup knot

What is the Yosemite finish on a retraced bowline?  I’m not sure I’ve seen a picture of that

Ryan Bowen wrote:

What is the Yosemite finish on a retraced bowline?  I’m not sure I’ve seen a picture of that

Not sure you can do that with a retraced bowline. Double bowline not a problem....

I've been using this bowline for many years (image from a Mark Gommers publication paci.com.au/knots.php).  It is a single bowline with the Yosemite finish followed by a tuck.  Unties without a struggle, never, in my experience, so much as loosens, even after full days.  It is compact and the tail exits in a good way.  If you know how to tie a bowline with the Yosemite finish, then this has one simple final step.  Understand, however, that your partners will not be able to check the knot and some---probably most---gyms will bust you for using it.

rgold wrote:

I've been using this bowline for many years

Do you use that when tying in with your doubles? Or do you go back to the retraced 8?

As far as I am concerned any can be the safest - the key is tying the knot correctly without thinking about it.

I use a bowline for singles and doubles. With either I tie a finish knot, call it the Yosemite finish, a variation, or what ever you want.

Another vote for the retraced bowline

Definitely retraced bowline. Super bomber. 

Scott’s locked bowline for sure 

wivanoff wrote:

Do you use that when tying in with your doubles? Or do you go back to the retraced 8?

No, use it for doubles.  Less bulky than retraced eight.  (I never use the retraced 8 unless a gym forces me to.)

The retraced bowline is excellent but with two ropes it puts four strands through the tie-in points; too bulky for my taste.

Rgold, I ask because if I remember this right, it would have come from your neck of the woods. I remember my first hand me down harness had no belay loop and I was recommended to tie in with a bowline on the bight tied with the standing end (retraced bowline). I believe the person instructing me was trained with the Appalachian Club.

Not a direct answer, but many people at a crag I frequent use knot-keys which are essentially little pieces of plastic that you jam into your fig 8 and can easily pull our with a QuickDraw. Once it's out its easy to untie because the knot isn't cinched. I have a bunch of them if anyone is interested in purchasing one. 

Connor Dobson wrote:

Not a direct answer, but many people at a crag I frequent use knot-keys which are essentially little pieces of plastic that you jam into your fig 8 and can easily pull our with a QuickDraw. Once it's out its easy to untie because the knot isn't cinched. I have a bunch of them if anyone is interested in purchasing one. 

Or you can just throw a biner into the knot for the same effect. 

Carson Mc wrote:

Rgold, I ask because if I remember this right, it would have come from your neck of the woods. I remember my first hand me down harness had no belay loop and I was recommended to tie in with a bowline on the bight tied with the standing end (retraced bowline). I believe the person instructing me was trained with the Appalachian Club.

Carson, not sure what the question is, but BITD when the Appies were active in the Gunks, I never saw or heard about anything but regular bowlines.  In fact, I learned about the retraced bowline as a climbing knot from an article in the DAV magazine (Panorama) about tie-in knots (they rated it the best if I remember correctly).  But that would have been 10 or 15 years ago...

Fail Falling wrote:

Or you can just throw a biner into the knot for the same effect. 

But carabiners don't pull directly out, with these things you can clip a draw to them and give them a hard yank to pull them out

An answer to a slightly different problem: How you tie your figure 8 is key. Keeping the "load strands" in the middle of the 8 and the retraced tail strands on the outside and then tensioning the knot tightly actually helps a standard figure 8 untie easier. 

To explain, in the image below the "load strand" (the rope going to your belayer is traced in red. In a perfect 8 it is kept towards the middle of the 8. It unties much easier than if the load strand is on the outside. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJkCaUUhqgs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAr-uHd8h8o

^ this guy has some very long winded videos that go into more detail. 

That being said I'm all for experimenting and learning other knots, just don't ever mess it up. A partially untied figure 8 saved my life, I've heard a partially untied bowline will not do the same. 

Connor Dobson wrote:

But carabiners don't pull directly out, with these things you can clip a draw to them and give them a hard yank to pull them out

Have you ever tried? Taking a carabiner out of your figure 8 knot after it's been welded from falling is very easy; you just hold the biner with your hand and pull it out. At most, you might need to twist the biner back and forth a couple times depending upon the shape of the biner stock. One doesn't even need to use a draw to yank on it.