Offset cams?

What are your opinions of them? 

Yes.

Totems

Kevin Mokracek wrote:

Totems

They work great if the flare is in the direction pull. They don't have any greater range than most cams, so they can't cover a tapered slot like a true offset.

Offsets are great if you need them. There are certain crags where they're the first cams on my rack but mostly they stay in the pack.

rocknice2 wrote:

They work great if the flare is in the direction pull. They don't have any greater range than most cams, so they can't cover a tapered slot like a true offset.

Offsets are great if you need them. There are certain crags where they're the first cams on my rack but mostly they stay in the pack.

In my experience they are much more versatile cam for off set placements than off set cams.   They are bi-directional meaning you can flip it around if it doesn’t work one way, you can’t do that with an off set cam.  All the cam lobes are engaged or if only two lobes are in contact you can isolate those two by clipping the inside loop, aid climbing only but heck I’d do it if that’s all I had available, you can’t do that with an off set cam.   Off set cam outside lobes are either right or left, Totems are both, you just flip it around if it doesn’t work well in one direction.  
Totem is a true utility cam. 

I have and use off set cams, Metolius and Alien but I rarely ever use them because they are such one trick ponies.  There are highly specific placements where a off set cam will work better than a Totem but for 95% of off set placements a Totem will either work or work better than a true off set cam.    

The cams pictured are of the same size off set cam but the lobes are opposite, this can be a pain if it doesn’t fit because you are limited by the orientation, not so with a Totem. 

Totems are for aid climbers - and noobs who can’t place offsets.  

Claiming a Totem takes the place of an offset is retarded - the cam angles are what they are - you need to change the lobe size if you want a true offset.  

My experience is an offset cam will work in 50% or more of placements and be superior or the only thing that works in about 10-25% or so - they’re generally 1/2 to 1/3 of my small cam rack.  

If the Totem is the only cam that will work in a placement, I hope you’re aid climbing because that placement is unlikely to hold a for-real fall.

James W wrote:

Totems are for aid climbers - and noobs who can’t place offsets.  

I'm hardly a noob, I have been trad climbing for almost 4 years.

rocknice2 wrote:

Offsets are great if you need them. There are certain crags where they're the first cams on my rack but mostly they stay in the pack.

This. Offset cam owners are typically: 1. Dedicated big wall climbers, 2. Experienced trad climbers who have identified particular routes/placements they want them for, 3. Noobs who listened to other noobs about buying unnecessary gear that they swear is necessary. 

Kevin Mokracek wrote:

I'm hardly a noob, I have been trad climbing for almost 4 years.

I’m three and a half, Mom!

Offsets are terrible in flares. Lobes need to be square with the rock to grip properly. I prefer tricams in those situations.

Have yet to find a need for them. But there are undoubtedly crags that require them more than others. If you climb at one of those crags, you probably already know you need them. But I wouldn’t bother hiking them up every approach to not need them.

James W wrote:

Totems are for aid climbers - and noobs who can’t place offsets.  

Claiming a Totem takes the place of an offset is retarded - the cam angles are what they are - you need to change the lobe size if you want a true offset.  

My experience is an offset cam will work in 50% or more of placements and be superior or the only thing that works in about 10-25% or so - they’re generally 1/2 to 1/3 of my small cam rack.  

If the Totem is the only cam that will work in a placement, I hope you’re aid climbing because that placement is unlikely to hold a for-real fall.

Bro just say u can't afford totems and move on, lol

aiden the cam slinging slasher wrote:

Bro just say u can't afford totems and move on, lol

Seems like you’d save money with Totems - they’re so bulky and heavy there are only so many you can fit on your harness.

The other thing I don’t get - the black Totem is getting into the off-width sizes of small cams.  Having an eye for getting in a secure blue/black offset vs a purple c3 vs a #4 rp on your first try IMO takes some experience - wanting trick gear to help get in a green Alien / black Totem size - I question whether you should even be trad climbing.

Another thing - yes, your ticklists - if all you climb with your rack of Totems is 5.7 trad - I can see how you’d not have any value for offsets - or anything else smaller than a 0.5 Camalot.

Abbi Dingus-Simmons wrote:

What are your opinions of them? 

Not a necessity at all for normal cragging.  I would advise by a set or two of off set nuts first.  

James W wrote:

Seems like you’d save money with Totems - they’re so bulky and heavy there are only so many you can fit on your harness.

The other thing I don’t get - the black Totem is getting into the off-width sizes of small cams.  Having an eye for getting in a secure blue/black offset vs a purple c3 vs a #4 rp on your first try IMO takes some experience - wanting trick gear to help get in a green Alien / black Totem size - I question whether you should even be trad climbing.

Another thing - yes, your ticklists - if all you climb with your rack of Totems is 5.7 trad - I can see how you’d not have any value for offsets - or anything else smaller than a 0.5 Camalot.

What tick list are you looking at?   I’m seeing mostly 5.10-5.12 trad on that list.  

Kevin Mokracek wrote:

What tick list are you looking at?   I’m seeing mostly 5.10-5.12 trad on that list.  

You mean TR lead/fell/hung?  Yes - Totems are more applicable for aid climbing.

James W wrote:

You mean TR lead/fell/hung?  Yes - Totems are more applicable for aid climbing.

For a 22 yo kid that’s still a pretty good list.   I gotta give him props for getting out there and doing it.  Absolutely nothing wrong with that. 

James W wrote:

Another thing - yes, your ticklists - if all you climb with your rack of Totems is 5.7 trad - I can see how you’d not have any value for offsets - or anything else smaller than a 0.5 Camalot.

Stay mad my man- funny that u bring up tick lists, looks like yours is quite robust!

I was just joking with you anyways man, I'm not really trying to get into it. If you're not down with a bit of light roasting from time to time, MP may not be the best website for ya.

To actually contribute to the topic of the thread, I have a full set of offset cams and still go for the totems every time unless I'm in Yosemite or sometimes J tree. Even then I still bring yē olde totems as well.

Stay tilted James, til next time <3 

Gonna ignore all the previous banter. 

Got a set of x4 offsets right from the get-go and used them all summer long in city of rocks. Definitely a solid purchase if you climb on granite, but then again - it's pretty likely that totems would do the job just as well. I have to agree that sometimes the lobes are on the wrong side for a solid camming action depending on the crack, and that's always the scenario where I wish I had a totem to place instead. However, for the routes that have wack flares or seams, offsets have been a lifesaver - especially when I don't have the money to drop on a full set of totems. 

Personally, I feel like they've helped me improve my placements since you have to be a lot more precise and analyze all the lobes much more carefully. Being a newbie tradster that's great, but if you've been in the game for a while you're probably just looking for the most efficient tool to have in your toolkit. 

I like them.  (Not as much as the black totem though)

I’ve found that they’re good for niche placements and I have placed and even fallen on them on occasion.  I treat them like my other niche gear- tricams, slider nuts, etc.  Great when you ABSOLUTELY have to protect in that spot, but so rare that I run into that scenario I leave ‘em out of the bag if the approach is longer than about 30 min or so (go ahead- make fun.  Bad knees) to save weight.  They work, but the other comments above about true angled flares I agree with also.