Denali 2022 Gear List Critique

Hey all!

I'll be climbing the West Buttress this June, looking for a critique on my gear list. Might have a few doubles/redundant items in here right now, and this isn't absolutely everything, but should be close to everything I'm bringing.

Climbing guided so tent, food, stoves, etc... will all be group gear and are not included.

Gear list is here: lighterpack.com/r/9toghw

Do you own all of this, or is this planned buying?

Anyway, sleep system; 

1. you should ditch the Ether Light XT and switch to a Thermarest Xtherm -- there is no better for cold weather camping. Same weight as the XT and triple the R-Value, and tough. If you are bringing the ZLite as a layering pad solely, you can now leave this behind, or bring a smaller foam pad as a camp seat or to layer under your torso. Also, the dimples on the ZLite tend to catch and carry any snow and are difficult to clean out.

2. Pillow; switch to the Fillo Elite. One third the weight, same product, reportedly same comfort.

3. Sleeping bag is whatever you feel is best for you. I like a layered multibag system, others like One Huge Bag, etc. Bring earplugs and a mask/buff.

4. Pee bottle; a soft-sided flask type of 1.5L is good.

Clothes look fine, this again is very specific. I like a looser sunhoody for glaciers than the Airshed Pro, but this is up to you. Bottoms, you may want to ditch one of your two pairs of fleece longjohns, and go with either the heavy or light, depending on what already works for you in the winter. Check to make sure your harness and rappel system works through the fly of your insulated pants!

Why two pairs of sunnies? Back up pair?

Good call on the A&D descender, and the HMS backup carabiners. I think you could get away with only one of that type instead of two, but this may be a requirement of your guiding service.

Does the guide service recommend overboots with the Phantom 6000 boots?

thoughts from a veteran of two Denali climbs:  I'd avoid air mat for sleeping.  recommend 2x old-school foam mats.  if an air mat goes bad up there, you'll be COLD

lists of pants/jackets/gloves/mits look rich to me - can you wear every layer you're taking at the same time?  if not, you're carrying extra.  think 1)skin layer 2)light/mid insulation 3)puffy layer for COLD 4)shell layer   - argument can be made for duplicates of key layers (I finished one climb wearing a stuff-sack on one hand after dropping a shell mit rigging rappel) -- but do you really NEED both a hard-shell and soft-shell jacket?  & I count seven layers on the pants list...  this ain't polite society -- you won't need to change your underwear...  if you're gonna carry extra multiples of anything, make it socks.

-Haireball

I forget where I got the recommendation, but bringing a light cotton t shirt for hanging around at 14k was the best gear decision I made. 

I wouldn't get too caught up upgrading things to save a few ounces, you've already got good gear. Don't forget you'll be hauling a hundred pounds of sled behind you most of the way anyways.

On that note, I would consider adding some weight for a pack with more structure and good hipbelt. Easily worth a couple pounds to be less sore day after day. If you've got the pack already, try hauling a sled with pack and sled fully loaded.

Others had good feedback on other gear (although I vote xtherm over foam), but I'd recommend a sub zero winter camping trip to figure out which stuff you really want or need to bring along for your personal warmth level. More useful than a warm up climb on Rainier, imo.

Thanks everyone for all of the solid advice!

Do you own all of this, or is this planned buying?

I own most of the gear yes, put together from 6+ years of backpacking and mountaineering. I have slowly been replacing things as I find what works best.

1. you should ditch the Ether Light XT and switch to a Thermarest Xtherm

The guide service requires we bring two pads. I would certainly replace my Ether Light if I could, but not looking to purchase an entirely new pad that I'll only be using a few times.

3. Sleeping bag is whatever you feel is best for you. I like a layered multibag system, others like One Huge Bag, etc. Bring earplugs and a mask/buff.

What do you use as a multibag system? I currently own a 18F Sea to Summit Spark. Had a hard time finding good information on bag layering for expeditions.

Why two pairs of sunnies? Back up pair?

Back up pair just in case.

Good call on the A&D descender, and the HMS backup carabiners. I think you could get away with only one of that type instead of two, but this may be a requirement of your guiding service.

Guide service requires most of the biners, I believe they may supply pulleys etc.. but I had them on the list because it's usually part of my standard kit.

Does the guide service recommend overboots with the Phantom 6000 boots?

Yes, they require overboots unless you're going with an 8000m boot.

thoughts from a veteran of two Denali climbs:  I'd avoid air mat for sleeping.  recommend 2x old-school foam mats.  if an air mat goes bad up there, you'll be COLD

Good advice, I'll make sure to bring many repair kit pieces just in case something goes wrong.

but do you really NEED both a hard-shell and soft-shell jacket?  

I'd love to ditch the hardshell if I could. I guess a potential option is to leave the softshell at home, although I love that jacket, and I really don't foresee myself using the hardshell unless it rains.

On that note, I would consider adding some weight for a pack with more structure and good hipbelt. Easily worth a couple pounds to be less sore day after day. If you've got the pack already, try hauling a sled with pack and sled fully loaded.

The Seek Outside packs are supposed to be comfortable with extremely heavy loads, the company makes them mainly for hunting where you'll be packing back large animals. I guess the only concern might be the sled hauling part, I'll call them up to see if they have any recommendations or good attachment points on the belt. The pack is on order right now, but my hope was to use it for other winter trips in the future instead of having a 6+lb pack.

I'd recommend a sub zero winter camping trip to figure out which stuff you really want or need to bring along for your personal warmth level. More useful than a warm up climb on Rainier, imo.

We are trying to get out somewhere cold, but options are limited in the Bay Area. Definitely want to put it all to the test though and see what works best.

Nathan Lewis wrote:

Thanks everyone for all of the solid advice!

The guide service requires we bring two pads. I would certainly replace my Ether Light if I could, but not looking to purchase an entirely new pad that I'll only be using a few times.

"Two pads" is not a lot of info, and I think an odd way of phrasing. You could bring two ZLites and would be cold every night on an R-value of 4 (it stacks directly, so 2 x2), or you could bring a single 7 or 9 R-value pad and be comfortable. 

I wouldn't sleep directly on snow (as you will on Denali) without at least an R-value of 5, and at that value I would likely be chilled most nights. You can find R-value chill calculators on most housing websites, funnily enough. Anyway, the reason I strongly recommend a higher R-value system is so that you aren't wasting your heat every night to the cold ground. The Etherlite XT at 3.2 and the Zlite at 2 barely come above that, and so while it will work, it's not ideal.

My system is the Xtherm and an ultrathin foam pad that I use as a back-pad in my pack (for alpine), or an Xtherm and a Zlite for basecamp.

What do you use as a multibag system? I currently own a 18F Sea to Summit Spark. Had a hard time finding good information on bag layering for expeditions.

I use a Spoonbill 2p when with a partner on a climb and it's not horribly cold, and have a light synthetic quilt that drapes over it to protect it from condensation, frost, and other moistures. Works great. When solo or in basecamp, I use a 15f down bag inside of a 40f synthetic overbag.

For goggles, look into the Julbo Aerospace. They're expensive but they almost never fog up, no matter how much you're sweating, thanks to a unique ventilation system that allows you to pop the lens away from the frame by a few millimeters. Here's a review. (There's a less expensive version, the Airflux, which doesn't have a photochromic lens). These could also be used as your backup sunglasses instead of bringing two pairs of Julbo Explorers.

Ben Podborski wrote:

"Two pads" is not a lot of info, and I think an odd way of phrasing. You could bring two ZLites and would be cold every night on an R-value of 4 (it stacks directly, so 2 x2), or you could bring a single 7 or 9 R-value pad and be comfortable. 

I wouldn't sleep directly on snow (as you will on Denali) without at least an R-value of 5, and at that value I would likely be chilled most nights. You can find R-value chill calculators on most housing websites, funnily enough. Anyway, the reason I strongly recommend a higher R-value system is so that you aren't wasting your heat every night to the cold ground. The Etherlite XT at 3.2 and the Zlite at 2 barely come above that, and so while it will work, it's not ideal.

My system is the Xtherm and an ultrathin foam pad that I use as a back-pad in my pack (for alpine), or an Xtherm and a Zlite for basecamp.

I use a Spoonbill 2p when with a partner on a climb and it's not horribly cold, and have a light synthetic quilt that drapes over it to protect it from condensation, frost, and other moistures. Works great. When solo or in basecamp, I use a 15f down bag inside of a 40f synthetic overbag.

Let me rephrase that. They require two pads, one being a foam pad, the other can be foam/air, with the idea like you said to get the R value over 5. Totally understand the sentiment of getting something warmer. My partner has the XLite (R4.2) and ZLite, so will probably be a bit better off than myself with the Etherlite Insulated.

Have any experience with a foam floor pad for the tent, such as this? 40below.com/product/forty-b…

Could potentially just make the tent experience a bit more enjoyable and get me over the R6+ hump.

Will consider getting something a bit warmer, appreciate the input.

For goggles, look into the Julbo Aerospace.

I already have the Smith I/OX and the lenses, have them from skiing already. Otherwise would love to upgrade the goggle system.

Nathan Lewis wrote:

Good advice, I'll make sure to bring many repair kit pieces just in case something goes wrong.

Inflatable pads are very easy to repair - generally one drop of seam grip and optional piece of repair tape to protect it while it cures.  You don't need more materials.  The hard part is finding the hole.  I've succeeded when I had a handy body of water and could submerge the pad.  I would not have found the hole(s) if I had been in an alpine environment.

Curt Haire wrote:

thoughts from a veteran of two Denali climbs:  I'd avoid air mat for sleeping.  recommend 2x old-school foam mats.  if an air mat goes bad up there, you'll be COLD

A single foam and and air pad works well. Part of one's repair kit should be duct tape or similar. Done field repairs with duct tape. Further, my air pad replaces the foam pad in my pack. So it serves double duty. Did that on the Cassin and an attempt on the Infinite Spur.

Top toss the insulated shell hoodies. Replace it with fleece or something more breathable*. You want something that breathes while you sweat schlepping a sled. If the wind picks up toss your hard shell on - hopefully it has pits zips. 

Make your lightest layer white or gray to reflect the sun. It can be an oven low down on the glacier.

Misc ... skip the bennie and tube. Hat and balaclava (you can wear a balaclava like bennie).

Bring some books to read that have sex, violence, and food. Helps to pass time. 

*Additional comment about the breathable bit. You want to be able to easily to moderate your body temperature. Especially as you will be moving in a group and being guided stops will be some what planned. I wear a fleece jacket with pit zips so if a bit warm all zippers are open, bit cool, I might zip the main zipper. Same with my hardshell, pit zippers. A bunch of layers is nice but the temps can quickly and back again. So being able to quickly adjust IMHO is key.

Make your lightest layer white or gray to reflect the sun. It can be an oven low down on the glacier.

Anything anyone would recommend for a sun hoody? The airshed is fairly breathable but it is pretty dark in color. I wish they just made it in white lol, then it would be perfect. Was eyeing the BD Alpenglow.

Top toss the insulated shell hoodies.

Don't have any insulated shell jackets, the soft and hardshell are all uninsulated, unless you're referring to the Nano-Air? I'm debating between that and the Down Sweater Hoody, or bringing both.

OR Echo is my favorite sun hoody

Nathan Lewis wrote:

Don't have any insulated shell jackets, the soft and hardshell are all uninsulated, unless you're referring to the Nano-Air? I'm debating between that and the Down Sweater Hoody, or bringing both.

The Patagucci insulated hoodies, nano air and down sweater.  Here is what I wear for cold climbs medium weight one piece base, one piece polar tech, heavier weight top (R1 or similar), fleece jacket, one piece hard shell. When things get cold I tossed the down jacket and the fleece pants on. As an extra layer I have expedition weight top and bottom. I want clothing that breath all the way until the hard shell. 

Referring to a Nano Air as a "hard shell" is using that terminology in a very unconventional way.  The Nano Air is breathable, not waterproof, and is quite common equipment on Denali and other similar environments:

http://maxneale.blogspot.com/2016/08/gear-list-for-denali-mountaineering.html

https://uphillathlete.com/forums/topic/denali-climbing-questions-pace-and-gear/

https://youtu.be/AKNA5ysyJco?t=789

Nathan, some popular sun hoodies are Patagonia's Sunshade and Tropic Comfort, OR Echo, Rab Pulse, Voormi River Run, etc.  Columbia also makes some less expensive ones for fishing.  A sun hoody isn't a high tech layer, so just get whatever is comfortable and affordable.

+1 for hardshell and softshell. I use my OR Ferossi in all four seasons.

Nitpick of someone’s earlier point but I prefer a hard sided pee bottle in the cold. Otherwise the bottle crinkles after you pee in it when the air inside cools off and it wakes me up.

A puffy in a stuffsack works great for me as a pillow!

BD alpenglow is great but I have never needed a sun hoody on a glacier. My layering for uphill and moderate cold is base layer plus OR ferrosi. Add a buff to cover your neck. In single digits or below id add a light R1 type fleece and take the softshell on or off as needed. If you’re just traipsing around the glacier a baselayer with a quarter zip and a collar plus a buff is all you need. Leave the sun hoody for the summer rock.

Lol I just don’t like my pee bottle taking space in my pack

Kyle Tarry wrote:

Referring to a Nano Air as a "hard shell" is using that terminology in a very unconventional way.  The Nano Air is breathable, not waterproof, and is quite common equipment on Denali and other similar environments:

I would not call the Nano a hard shell either. But some of these insulated garments are just not breathable enough when under multiple layers. Similar with the Down Sweater Hoody. It is hard to keep up what is what these days. Didn't Patagonia just change from "FullRange" to "Thermolite"??

In general, your gear list looks quite well thought out with one exception:   sun hoody.   I can't recommend a sun hoody enough.   You will get very hot dragging your sled uphill so having a lightweight sun blocking layer is crucial.   This is my favorite as it is wool:  https://voormi.com/products/mens-river-shirt....

Other small tweaks if you had the money would be:   lighter weight hard shell(you will mainly wear this as a wind blocking layer), warmer insulated pad, lighter weight crampons(I personally use 10 point steel).

Allen Sanderson wrote:

I would not call the Nano a hard shell either. But some of these insulated garments are just not breathable enough when under multiple layers. Similar with the Down Sweater Hoody. It is hard to keep up what is what these days. Didn't Patagonia just change from "FullRange" to "Thermolite"??

Down sweater hoody is down-filled, and not breathable.

Nano-Air is a synthetic breathable active layer, very breathable.

CalvinM wrote:

In general, your gear list looks quite well thought out with one exception:   sun hoody.   I can't recommend a sun hoody enough.   You will get very hot dragging your sled uphill so having a lightweight sun blocking layer is crucial.   This is my favorite as it is wool:  https://voormi.com/products/mens-river-shirt....

Other small tweaks if you had the money would be:   lighter weight hard shell(you will mainly wear this as a wind blocking layer), warmer insulated pad, lighter weight crampons(I personally use 10 point steel).

He already has a hooded baselayer a dedicated sunhoody would be pointless.