Packability of Down vs Synthetic

I was looking at getting a new insulated jacket, one that I'd mostly be using as a belay parka for cold weather rock climbing (or in some cases climbing with it on too). I'm planning on having it in a stuff sack either hang of off my harness or in my backpack. So I want to know which will retain it's loft better over the years after being continually compressed, down or synthetic? I could see continuous synthetic fibers getting tweaked after sustained use, but I really have no idea. And regardless of which lasts longer from being continually compressed, is the shelf life of down better synthetic or vise versa?

I'm looking at getting the Cerium LT or the Nuclei FL/DAS Light if that helps. Thanks.

Bryce Dahlgren wrote:

So I'm want to know which will retain it's loft better over the years after being continually compressed, down or synthetic? 

Down

Down is still the way to go but a lot of synthetics are getting closer to down performance.  And if course synthetics are the way to go if there's any risk of the getting wet from precipitation or sweat.

FWIW I have the Nuclei FL and absolutely love it. I think it would be damn near perfect for what you'd like to use it for but expect it to get a bit beat up while climbing IN it (as any lightweight puffy would). I am a big fan of down usually but if you only want one jacket for this use I would go synthetic if just for the warmth when wet factor, especially with the Nuclei being so warm you will definitely sweat in it on more than one occasion. It is also pretty packable for a synthetic jacket, my XL is about the size of a nalgene. 

Down

Pros: very compressible, stands up to continuous compression and decompression, breathes better, much warmer for its weight, longer life with good maintenance. 

Cons: less warm when wet, sensitive to moisture (mildew), more maintenance-intensive 

Synthetic

Pros: Insulates when damp, dries quicker, easier maintenance

Cons: Bigger, heavier, fibers can break down over time (all three of these downsides, especially the first two, are getting less notable due to fabric innovations).

Both have their place in a clothing quiver but especially for conditions below freezing down is still unbeatable and I don't expect this to change radically very quickly. 

Down all the way.
i would only go synthetic in humid places (think Patagonia) or if you cannot dry your jacket (outings of more than 3 days in a row for ex).
FWIW I bought a Norrona trollveggen down 850 Jacket like 18 months ago and been in love with it ever since (for belays while ice climbing or winter mountainering and winter bivvy).
To wear while climbing I would go for something lighter, there is many good options but I m, again, using a Norrona piece (falketind down 750 Hood)

Down is the longer lasting one if taken care of, I've ruined a down jacket in just a couple of years from bad washing(not my fault I swear) so you definitely need to baby them more, never compress down when wet, that destroys the down very quickly and use dedicated detergent for it, allied feather and down do some great stuff. 

Synthetic it doesn't matter how you wash it, how wet it is it all packs out at the same rate, Backpacking light did a test on some synthetic insulation and they found after it initially packed out it mostly stopped deteriorating so if you get something beefy enough initially you'll be okay. Synthetics also only deteriorate when tightly compressed, for a belay jacket this might not be an issue, I personally never put any jacket into a stuff sack unless I'm going into the mountains. 

As a general rock climbing belay jacket down is a great choice just for how luxurious and nice it is. I would say though if you ever intended to go into the mountains I would stick with synthetic for the most part. It might be completely dry but all it takes is wet snow or being inside a cloud and your down will get fucked. There are treatmentss for down to revive the dwr which make this less of a problem but unless you're really on it with taking care of it synthetic is by far the safer choice. 

One more thing, climbing with a down jacket fucking sucks, synthetic jackets are warmer for less loft (but more weight) than a down jacket so you can actually see your feet and jam your arms into cracks much easier in a synthetic. Down jackets also come with the constant fear of tearing a hole in the jacket and losing  that expensive down. Synthetic jackets have no risk of leakage even with large holes. 

Fabien M wrote:

Down all the way.
i would only go synthetic in humid places (think Patagonia) or if you cannot dry your jacket (outings of more than 3 days in a row for ex).
FWIW I bought a Norrona trollveggen down 850 Jacket like 18 months ago and been in love with it ever since (for belays while ice climbing or winter mountainering and winter bivvy).
To wear while climbing I would go for something lighter, there is many good options but I m, again, using a Norrona piece (falketind down 750 Hood)

What about up to 3 days? I too have a Norrona trollveggen, but the synthetic one, because I couldn’t afford the down one, and it is noticeably colder, now on its third year, then it was previously. I am thinking of just biting the bullet and doing the down, because it is probably cheaper than buying a new one every few years

I said 3 days because after 3 days of taking it in and out the backpack, rubbing it against the ice and sleeping in it the jacket will start to retain some moiste and loose its effectiveness.
Ski touring for a week or more with it is different since you will use it less but if I was to do an alpine expedition I would certainly not risk having a life saving equipment being damp.
Also factoring that over a longer period you are risking more foul weather.
There is a video on YT of Steve House saying exactly that about sleeping bags (same idea as the jacket) for one night he is always taking a down one but for more than one night he is always taking a synthetic one since down is hardly usable beyond one night.

Side note: i also have done the math for my own use before buying. I m doing 98% of my high mountain outings in the European alps and I think you can climb 90% of what I m capable of climbing in 3 days or less so down makes a lot more sense for me (plus I m lazy and weak so I rather carry less weight)

Fabien M wrote:

I said 3 days because after 3 days of taking it on and off the backpack, rubbing it against the ice and sleeping in it the jacket will start to retain some moiste and loose its effectiveness.
Ski touring for a week or more with it is different since you will use it less but if I was to do an alpine expedition I would certainly not risk having a life saving equipment being damp.
Also factoring the fact that over a longer period you are risking more foul weather.
There is a video on YT of Steve House saying exactly that about sleeping bags (same idea as the jacket) for one night he is always taking a down one but for more than one night he is always taking a synthetic one since down is hardly usable beyond one night.

Side note: i also have done the math for my own use before buying. I m doing 98% of my high mountain outings in the European alps and I think you can climb 90% of what I m capable of climbing in 3 days or less so down makes a lot more sense for me (plus I m lazy and weak so I rather carry less weight)

3 days is about my max for being out as well, so that’s why I asked ! :-)