Z4 vs Dragonfly?

I have mixed feelings about my Z4s for sizes .2 and below. Curious about other people’s experience with the DMM Dragonfly’s for the same size range? The little yellow-green sizes. Love my Z4s for .3-.5 otherwise

For sizes 0.2 and below. 

Hate the z4. The trigger action sucks. Idk why but it never inspires confidence for me.

Love the x4, but they don’t make it anymore. I have the dragonfly 0.2 equivalent and I enjoy it more than the z4. I’m going to be getting 0.0 in the dragonfly, no more z4s for me. 

Cesar Cardenas wrote:

For sizes 0.2 and below. 

Hate the z4. The trigger action sucks. Idk why but it never inspires confidence for me.

That was my feeling as well. Feels like I can’t even retract the cam! I’ve been eyeing the Dragonflys and wanted some opinions. I miss the x4s too. Sigh.

The dragonfly’s are way to floppy and too wide if a head. The z4 is great. But if I’m carrying point two I use red c3. I do liken the zerofriend to the x4 and prefer the zero in the smaller sizes. 

Fan of dragonflys. Have a pefectly good set of x4 in the closet. 

The yellow dragonfly has largest diamer axle for a cam that size and has a rating of 8kn! 

The green and red are both rated to 6kn. These cams are very flexible and therefore not so stuffable. Been using mine for a while now and very happy with them.

I have only used Z4s a handful of times but I was uninspired by them, personally. The trigger action felt a bit squishy, and the whole "Z" plastic thing I found to make no difference and just to be a gimmick. The head width of them is nice, but in the climbing I've done I have not yet come across a placement where cam head width has been such that one company's cam would fit and another would not. I rack a combo of Dragonflies and ZeroFriends for my micro cams, but it's become mostly Dragonflies. I like that the smallest of these is the only cam of that size from any company still rated to 6 kN. The floppiness of the green & red Dragonflies is easily managed simply because they are so small. I have used this to my advantage, actually, when placing these in dihedral seams that are hard to reach far enough into. I've found the lack of "stuff-ability" from the floppiness to be a none-issue because I find myself usually placing cams this small somewhat precisely anyway so as to prevent getting them stuck.

The dragonflies are pretty nice, but the yellow size can be frustrating. The lower trigger bar (that the wires connect to) is wider than the retracted lobes and can get stuck easily in a somewhat passive way, where in the event of a fall it would actually be that trigger bar that would take some of the impact. It also can prevent a placement deeper in the crack as the bar becomes the widest point of the device.

The other sizes don’t have this issue, I think it’s because they wanted the higher kn rating that they used the bigger bar found on the larger sizes rather than the slimmer one found on the red and green sizes… the slimmer bar would have made it a non-issue.

In that size, an alien or zero friend are better IMO

Have both. Prefer the z4 bc it's easier to cram into tight spots as I overcam all my micros. Also the dragonfly ranges are awkward. Z4s fit exactly in between my totem sizes but the dragonflies are weird especially at blue

Agree I prefer the Z4s over the dragonflies - would say look at zero friends if you're looking to move on from the Z4s, or try to scoop some used C3s.

I have a set of dragonflys, the yellow is awesome and it supplements my totems as it is slightly smaller than the black totem.  I have whipped on the red dragonfly and it help.  I think they inspire more confidence the aliens and I am not a fan of the plastic covering on z4s.   Curious if it ever breaks off.  Anywho, everyone has their own opinion on gear just gotta pick a set that works for you and lets you climb as hard as possible. Zero friends look sweet though too...

Cheers

Just took a good fall on a .2 z4, first time I even racked that piece actually, my gf got it for me for my birthday lol. It held, and still works fine so I can endorse the micro z4s. Never placed a dragonfly though. 

neither....UL mastercam!!! I've got it all, dragonfly, Z4, MC. The durability and rigidity of the MC is unmatched imo. I personally don't leave home for harder trad dad climbs without grey, purple and blue. Not to mention their offset cousins :)

That being said, I do like red and green Z4, ha. As others stated above, I don't like the floppiness of the dragonfly.

Been using dragonflys for two years and I love them. Haven’t tried the Z4 

I like the dual axle Z4, they are all very nice. The single axle is not really to my likening. I have not used much else, but the dragonflys seem nicer from my limited use. I have the green and red Z4 single axle and the trigger action is awful. The next bigger size is the black Totem and that always feel that it is something that actually would take a fall. I have aided on the green and red Z4 and that has worked. I have fond memories of the red shifting and only bening attached on one side of the lobes while standing in a ladder.

Z4 in 0.3-0.75 are fantastic, place with confidence all the time and I've whipped on the 0.3 a few times and it still works, although my buddy's 0.3 got mangled / retired when it blew out of a coarse Jtree crack. I like the offsets too, have up to the 0.4/0.5 and they go nicely with Totems and regular Z4s as a 3rd set for granite. 

I agree the Z4 in 0.2 and down has a mushy/stiff trigger but the rigidflex system more than makes up for that when stuffing in micro cracks. Only touched a dragonfly a few times and they were way more floppy, reminded me of the tiniest aliens which are frustrating to place and also to clean as they get stuck on tiny crystals and the bendy stems prevents you from applying torque to unstick them. 

The Z4 0.2/0.3 offset is single stem and a similarly mushy trigger but it's hands down one of my favorite cams, that little bugger goes in so many funky spots when nothing else feels good. 

I doubled up in micro sizes 0.1 & 0.2 with the WC ZF and I like them more than aliens or dragonflies and they have a better trigger than the Z4, but they kink pretty easily and seem a bit delicate whereas my Z4s feel like tanks. I also have a 0.2 X4 I bootied and the trigger feel is waaaay smoother than the 0.2 Z4 but similar trade off as with other cams is the X4 is more floppy for stuffing into cracks. 

I'd buy the Z4s again, especially on sale as they can be 1/2 - 2/3 the price of totems. On the double axle versions especially, the effective range is really large. 

FWIW lately I've been placing the 0.1 a lot more lately and it's become my go-to cam in the size - agree with all of the comments about the trigger action but that cam has inspired confidence in placements of a size that I previously was never confident in. Really love that thing.