Totem cams are ruining climbing.

The most important distinguishing characteristic of traditional climbing is risk. Sport climbing and bouldering can have incredible movement and difficulty, but nothing compares to both of these things with the added element of risk. Pretty much all trad climbers will agree that cranking a hard move over dicey gear is an unparalleled feeling that few things in climbing compare to.

Not only is risk the essence of trad climbing, it is the essence of climbing in general. Even boulderers will admit that “R” rated ascents are more rewarding and impressive than safe ascents of the same grade (cf Ambrosia V11X). For this reason, it can be concluded that reducing risk in climbing would mean losing something very important to climbing as an ideal.

This brings us to Totem cams. They are a feat of engineering and have really revolutionized the original Ray Jardine Friend design. They hold in placements no other cam would hold in, and can even hold a fall with only two lobes engaging. Undeniably, Totems make trad climbing safer and reduce risk.

I think this is a bad thing. Climbing is an individual sport, and the experience of the individual is paramount. Reducing risk means reducing the quality of experience for the individual. Imagine manteling 6 ft above a brassie. Now imagine manteling 6 ft above a bolt. Which one would you be more proud to accomplish? If every trad placement were a bolt, your individual experience would be less satisfying. 

It seems that Totems reduce many cam placements to the security of a bolt. Climbing over a Totem gives a sense of security that destroys the risk in the climbers mind, neutering the experience of traditional climbing. It seems to me that due to the superior design of Totems, they will eventually replace standard C4s and TCUs. This would reduce the risk of trad climbing, and as I said destroy something very important to the spirit of climbing. 

We as climbers cannot let this happen. Stop buying Totems, and reclaim your natural right to risky, rewarding traditional ascents. For any climber who considers him or herself a non-poser, it is your sacred duty.

A buddy of mine bought a set of totems, but he has really started to like my TCUs an awful lot (he never used them before). I like totems okay, but I think they've got too much "junk in the trunk", meaning the multi sling/clip point set up might be useful for aid but really is just in the way on the rack most of the time. TCUs are sleek on the rack.

Rocrates wrote:

The most important distinguishing characteristic of traditional climbing is risk. Sport climbing and bouldering can have incredible movement and difficulty, but nothing compares to both of these things with the added element of risk. Pretty much all trad climbers will agree that cranking a hard move over dicey gear is an unparalleled feeling that few things in climbing compare to.

Not only is risk the essence of trad climbing, it is the essence of climbing in general. Even boulderers will admit that “R” rated ascents are more rewarding and impressive than safe ascents of the same grade (cf Ambrosia V11X). For this reason, it can be concluded that reducing risk in climbing would mean losing something very important to climbing as an ideal.

This brings us to Totem cams. They are a feat of engineering and have really revolutionized the original Ray Jardine Friend design. They hold in placements no other cam would hold in, and can even hold a fall with only two lobes engaging. Undeniably, Totems make trad climbing safer and reduce risk.

I think this is a bad thing. Climbing is an individual sport, and the experience of the individual is paramount. Reducing risk means reducing the quality of experience for the individual. Imagine manteling 6 ft above a brassie. Now imagine manteling 6 ft above a bolt. Which one would you be more proud to accomplish? If every trad placement were a bolt, your individual experience would be less satisfying. 

It seems that Totems reduce many cam placements to the security of a bolt. Climbing over a Totem gives a sense of security that destroys the risk in the climbers mind, neutering the experience of traditional climbing. It seems to me that due to the superior design of Totems, they will eventually replace standard C4s and TCUs. This would reduce the risk of trad climbing, and as I said destroy something very important to the spirit of climbing. 

We as climbers cannot let this happen. Stop buying Totems, and reclaim your natural right to risky, rewarding traditional ascents. For any climber who considers him or herself a non-poser, it is your sacred duty.

Yes! Everyone get rid of your totems! Send them to me for proper disposal. Dm for address 

The idea that Totems are so revolutionary and superior that they virtually eliminate risk as compared to other options on the market is dumb.

Gear doesn’t eliminate risk, it merely expands your options. 

9/10 on the troll scale. While the core of your argument is absurd (reducing risk is somehow a bad thing), part of me jives with it, despite owning totems myself.

You can always apply the ol’ bolt next to a crack equivalent: “just don’t clip the bolt, bro”. In the same vein, just cuz I got a rack of totems on my gear loop doesn’t mean I’ve got to place them.

Finally, I think there’s the possibility that totems could actually increase risk. Imagine your average 5.10 climber slamming in a totem at an insecure stance in a sketchy tipped-out 2-lobe placement and thinking “meh, good enough” simply b/c we believe they have some mythical holding power. Guilty as charged. 

I've climbed for over a decade and I've never placed one. I've cleaned them, but I agree with someone up thread who said they have "too much junk in the trunk". I haven't been able to allow myself to fork out the cash, and I still like old smooth lobed metolius cams and regular camalots. Just don't buy them. 

Cron wrote:

9/10 on the troll scale. While the core of your argument is absurd (reducing risk is somehow a bad thing), part of me jives with it, despite owning totems myself.

You can always apply the ol’ bolt next to a crack equivalent: “just don’t clip the bolt, bro”. In the same vein, just cuz I got a rack of totems on my gear loop doesn’t mean I’ve got to place them.

Finally, I think there’s the possibility that totems could actually increase risk. Imagine your average 5.10 climber slamming in a totem at an insecure stance in a sketchy tipped-out 2-lobe placement and thinking “meh, good enough” simply b/c we believe they have some mythical holding power. Guilty as charged. 

To your first point: if it’s there, you’re going to clip/place it. You would be stupid not to. A big part of trad is throwing yourself head first into a situation and figuring it out as you go. If you know you have an out, that aspect is destroyed.

To your second point: I agree. Totems could increase unknowledgeable risk-taking. A lot like bolts have. 

Time to get rid of Totems. Or should I say, No-tems.

Rocrates wrote:

The most important distinguishing characteristic of traditional climbing is risk. Sport climbing and bouldering can have incredible movement and difficulty, but nothing compares to both of these things with the added element of risk. Pretty much all trad climbers will agree that cranking a hard move over dicey gear is an unparalleled feeling that few things in climbing compare to.

Not only is risk the essence of trad climbing, it is the essence of climbing in general. Even boulderers will admit that “R” rated ascents are more rewarding and impressive than safe ascents of the same grade (cf Ambrosia V11X). For this reason, it can be concluded that reducing risk in climbing would mean losing something very important to climbing as an ideal.

This brings us to Totem cams. They are a feat of engineering and have really revolutionized the original Ray Jardine Friend design. They hold in placements no other cam would hold in, and can even hold a fall with only two lobes engaging. Undeniably, Totems make trad climbing safer and reduce risk.

I think this is a bad thing. Climbing is an individual sport, and the experience of the individual is paramount. Reducing risk means reducing the quality of experience for the individual. Imagine manteling 6 ft above a brassie. Now imagine manteling 6 ft above a bolt. Which one would you be more proud to accomplish? If every trad placement were a bolt, your individual experience would be less satisfying. 

It seems that Totems reduce many cam placements to the security of a bolt. Climbing over a Totem gives a sense of security that destroys the risk in the climbers mind, neutering the experience of traditional climbing. It seems to me that due to the superior design of Totems, they will eventually replace standard C4s and TCUs. This would reduce the risk of trad climbing, and as I said destroy something very important to the spirit of climbing. 

We as climbers cannot let this happen. Stop buying Totems, and reclaim your natural right to risky, rewarding traditional ascents. For any climber who considers him or herself a non-poser, it is your sacred duty.

Totems certainly do satisfy the weak and the timid, but ultimately the risk relies on the user. Even the all-star design at Totem inc can not overcome the arrogance of man.

Ok, sure.  Maybe.  With the stipulation this may be a troll... which OMG I RESPONDED TO A TROLL PLEASE EVERYONE LET ME KNOW IN THE COMMENTS!!! notwithstanding, it's not a convincing argument.  This luddistic argument has seen many iterations spanning several decades, and unless we're talking about the very first time it was made, which is the only time it ever may have been worth considering, it has been made numerous times since then.  So unless you're up there in hobnail boots and a hemp rope putting more piton scars in, or naked free soloing, I'm not sure your claim has any merit.

1955 from ultra old school alpinists:  "Kernmantle ropes are ruining climbing."

Early 80s/Late 70s:  "Sticky rubber AND bolts AND cams (ironically your claim of Totems is merely a subclaim of this one) are ruining climbing."

Also, I'll let you in on a couple secrets:  Totems can pull in extremely poor placements, and in friable rock, and well placed cams in solid rock don't.  If your argument hinges on good placements vs. bad ones, then it's not a good argument.  If your argument hinges on the availability of placements vs. runouts, then that's not an argument about cams, it's an argument about routes.

Rocrates wrote:

To your first point: if it’s there, you’re going to clip/place it. You would be stupid not to. A big part of trad is throwing yourself head first into a situation and figuring it out as you go. If you know you have an out, that aspect is destroyed.

I guess no one should climb splitters then, because with enough gear and a modicum of aiding sensibility, I KNOW WITHOUT A DOUBT I have "an out".

People used to climb for the fun of climbing. I feel sorry for you all.

Let's bring some cheap logic here:

 if Totem are ruining climbing 

And Totem bring safety

Then Safety ruins climbing.

Francois Dumas wrote:

Let's bring some cheap logic here:

 if Totem are ruining climbing 

And Totem bring safety

Then Safety ruins climbing.

I mean, that may be true for Mr. Rocrates.  Sounds like it is.  But the assertion wasn't that it ruins it "for him".  It's that it just ruins it wholesale, which is nonsense.

Funny post, and good troll that doesn’t seem particularly mean or harmful.

I think we can solve this by putting a checkbox under lead in the tick section that says “totems” which then automatically lowers your ticks grade by 1 number. Done, solved it.

we all know that the purest style of climbing is naked, no shoes, no jammies, no chalk, harness on, full rack (not totems), placing gear on lead ground up onsight, but not clipping the gear. Anything less than that is aid.

Gear smear.   When I want to amp it up, I just go climb rock in the rain in the PNW.   And if it ain’t raining, well, any boy of about three years old will know what to do.

Troll or not, I'll simply submit this gem from the late Brutus of Wyde:

"Every time significant tools have been developed in alpinism, making the extant cutting-edge climbs into mainstream classics, there have been those who have decried the developments, claiming that such tools take the adventure out of the sport. Other individuals, with perhaps more vision or imagination, or perhaps just a greater need for the tools, developed skills and techniques beyond the old school, and opened up whole new worlds of the possible. To which of these two camps of thought belongs the greater sense of adventure? That new technology can and will be used to bring the mountains down to a low but democratic mean; or that enchantment with the improbable, the search for the barely-possible, is furthered with each stride forward into the unknown?"

The OP is an employee of the  Totem company.

Rocrates wrote:

The most important distinguishing characteristic of traditional climbing is risk. Sport climbing and bouldering can have incredible movement and difficulty, but nothing compares to both of these things with the added element of risk. Pretty much all trad climbers will agree that cranking a hard move over dicey gear is an unparalleled feeling that few things in climbing compare to.

Not only is risk the essence of trad climbing, it is the essence of climbing in general. Even boulderers will admit that “R” rated ascents are more rewarding and impressive than safe ascents of the same grade (cf Ambrosia V11X). For this reason, it can be concluded that reducing risk in climbing would mean losing something very important to climbing as an ideal.

This brings us to Totem cams. They are a feat of engineering and have really revolutionized the original Ray Jardine Friend design. They hold in placements no other cam would hold in, and can even hold a fall with only two lobes engaging. Undeniably, Totems make trad climbing safer and reduce risk.

I think this is a bad thing. Climbing is an individual sport, and the experience of the individual is paramount. Reducing risk means reducing the quality of experience for the individual. Imagine manteling 6 ft above a brassie. Now imagine manteling 6 ft above a bolt. Which one would you be more proud to accomplish? If every trad placement were a bolt, your individual experience would be less satisfying. 

It seems that Totems reduce many cam placements to the security of a bolt. Climbing over a Totem gives a sense of security that destroys the risk in the climbers mind, neutering the experience of traditional climbing. It seems to me that due to the superior design of Totems, they will eventually replace standard C4s and TCUs. This would reduce the risk of trad climbing, and as I said destroy something very important to the spirit of climbing. 

We as climbers cannot let this happen. Stop buying Totems, and reclaim your natural right to risky, rewarding traditional ascents. For any climber who considers him or herself a non-poser, it is your sacred duty.

I agree with your reasoning.  It resonates with the saying:  "The Leader Must Not Fall".  

1) We should stop buying and using nylon ropes.
2) Chalk? Overrated as it helps one feel slightly more secure. Climbing shoes? Even Freedom of the Hills suggest wearing boots with a sturdy edge.
3) Removing the crashpad makes bouldering more rewarding, right?
4) Lets drop health insurance to add additional spice.

The glorification of risk is way overdone.  Face it, you just want to be able to brag to your non climbing friends how gnar and badass you are when in reality unless you just really suck and placing pro climbing is no more dangerous than lawn darts.

You should only ever rack hexes. Goody style