Scarpa Arpia vs Veloce (Haglund's deformity and Mortons toe)

I've been climbing for around 2 years now in a pair of La sportiva Tarantulace size 41 (I wear size 42 street shoes). These are suuuuper comfy but feel to clumsy, lacking in the edging department and are getting worn out so wanted to try out something new. However, I have a quite large bump on especially my right heel (haglunds disese) thanks to years of wearing and breaking in  goodyear welted dress shoes...I also have Morton's Toe/greek toe where my second toe is is longer then my big toe.

I am looking for something moderatelty downturned and assymetrical, i.e. not a high-end kill your feet downturn and assymetrical and a bit softer but equally nothing completely flat and straight and only for wearing indoors.

The shoes I've tried so far in multiple sizes and that did not fit my foot at all without causing massive pain instantly/within a few mintues:

• Scarpa Vapor v
• Scarpa Force V
• Scarpa Boostic
• Scarpa Quantic
• Scarpa Instinct vsr
• Scarpa instinct vs
• Scarpa Drago
• La sportiva skwama
• La sportiva katana
• Tenaya Iati
• Tenaya Ra

Ok but still more pain than uncformtable:

• Tenaya Masti size 42: too put way to much preassure on the outer side of my feet aroundthe pinkies, they felt a bit too narrow, otherwise good in the heal and overall comfy
• Scarpa Veloce size 41.5: could barely get my feet in and my toes were super cramped, especially both my "second" toes
• Scarpa  Arpia size 41.5: when trying these in the store test wall they felt great, bought them and had them on at home just watching tv and after 30 min they were way too painful in the heel and around my smallest toe/side of the foot.

These are best, I bought both pairs to just wear around at home for a while for a few days:

• Scarpa Veloce size 42: these are quit comfy, no hurting on the heel and toes arent too crimped, they do make farting sounds when walking around so there is a bit of air trapped in these, I think this is due to them being too big, could probably do with 0.5 size smaller.
• Scarpa Arpia size 42: feel like they fit better then the veloce i.e. no dead space or air trapped, not as much preassure on the big toe but my second toes are way more crimped, initially quite some pressure on my pinkies since these are more narrow and the the heel feels slightly worse then Veloce. The preassure on the side of the toes seems to have dissapered now though. Not sure how much these will stretch so maybe I should go half a size down?

Not sure what to keep tbh. The Veloce feel nice and a bit more comfortable but I'm afraid they might be too soft since I come from wearing La sportiva tarantulace? I do no bouldering and minimal overhang, only indoors climbing, vertical and some slightly more than vertival,  more edging then slabs. The Arpias feel like a good compromise between Tarantulace super stiff and Veloce super soft, Im afraid the Veloces might just be too soft? 

Honestly I'm more cautious about my feet then having something uberperformance.

I have moderate Morton's toe, fairly wide forefoot, stubby pinky toe, medium/narrow heel. I have (or had) both shoes in question, used primarily in the gym, both the same size (44). For reference, I wear Katana Lace or TC Pro for outdoor climbing (both 44.5), slight differences in fit between the two models but love them both.

My observations, may or may not be relevant to you:

Arpias:

- Tried various sizes but always felt too tight in the toebox (toes painfully crunched, big toe/second toe mostly) and too baggy in the heel for me. I think the slingshot rand just doesn't work great with my heel shape, and shoves my foot forward too aggressively. After soaking the shoes in hot water and wearing with socks for a while I was able to stretch them enough to be manageable, but I wouldn't count on stretch to make them fit right. I've since wondered if cutting the heel rand (there are a few threads on this) might be the answer, but never tried.

-The synthetic material absorbs foot stink like nothing I have ever encountered. My shoes "smell like a dead raccoon" and my wife won't let me keep them in the house. Never had the same level of smell with any other pairs of shoes.

-I do think they're pretty decent shoes, especially for the gym. Sticky rubber but still fairly stiff. Just wish they fit me better.

Veloces (current gym shoes):

- VERY soft and sticky. Great for smearing, but not so much for edging. The rubber is so soft and sticky you can kind of just smash it onto edges and make it work though.

- Heel seems a little smaller than the Arpias, which works better for me. 

- They will stretch, so you might be able to go .5 size smaller, but for me same size as my Arpias (.5 smaller than my "comfortable" LS outdoor shoes) is perfect.

- I was worried about the stink issue, since they're also a synthetic Scarpa shoe. I've been wearing super thin no-show shoe liners with them, and so far no odor issues. No performance compromise with the liners that I've noticed.

- I like the mesh top, it's hot here (HI).

I also tried the La Sportiva Kubos, comfortable shoes but the rubber just didn't work for me. 

It took some time to break them in and adjust to the softer shoes, but I like the Veloces better for gym climbing. But if the Arpias fit well, they are a great gym shoe option performance wise. I also think the Arpias would be more versatile/durable if you ever plan to use them outdoors. Hope that helps!

The veloce's would be great for gym only, they're *too* soft for outside, I found them quite painful being able to feel every pebble. But, they're like cheating in the gym. If you're looking for a one quiver shoe, that would be the Arpia, and it does soften up a bit as you break them in. 

M Wolf wrote:

I have moderate Morton's toe, fairly wide forefoot, stubby pinky toe, medium/narrow heel. I have (or had) both shoes in question, used primarily in the gym, both the same size (44). For reference, I wear Katana Lace or TC Pro for outdoor climbing (both 44.5), slight differences in fit between the two models but love them both.

My observations, may or may not be relevant to you:

Arpias:

- Tried various sizes but always felt too tight in the toebox (toes painfully crunched, big toe/second toe mostly) and too baggy in the heel for me. I think the slingshot rand just doesn't work great with my heel shape, and shoves my foot forward too aggressively. After soaking the shoes in hot water and wearing with socks for a while I was able to stretch them enough to be manageable, but I wouldn't count on stretch to make them fit right. I've since wondered if cutting the heel rand (there are a few threads on this) might be the answer, but never tried.

-The synthetic material absorbs foot stink like nothing I have ever encountered. My shoes "smell like a dead raccoon" and my wife won't let me keep them in the house. Never had the same level of smell with any other pairs of shoes.

-I do think they're pretty decent shoes, especially for the gym. Sticky rubber but still fairly stiff. Just wish they fit me better.

Veloces (current gym shoes):

- VERY soft and sticky. Great for smearing, but not so much for edging. The rubber is so soft and sticky you can kind of just smash it onto edges and make it work though.

- Heel seems a little smaller than the Arpias, which works better for me. 

- They will stretch, so you might be able to go .5 size smaller, but for me same size as my Arpias (.5 smaller than my "comfortable" LS outdoor shoes) is perfect.

- I was worried about the stink issue, since they're also a synthetic Scarpa shoe. I've been wearing super thin no-show shoe liners with them, and so far no odor issues. No performance compromise with the liners that I've noticed.

- I like the mesh top, it's hot here (HI).

I also tried the La Sportiva Kubos, comfortable shoes but the rubber just didn't work for me. 

It took some time to break them in and adjust to the softer shoes, but I like the Veloces better for gym climbing. But if the Arpias fit well, they are a great gym shoe option performance wise. I also think the Arpias would be more versatile/durable if you ever plan to use them outdoors. Hope that helps!

Super helpful, thanks! Regarding the stinky arpias, I am contemplating starting to wear thin low cut socks since this also seems to allivate the pain in my messed up heel, should also help with the stink.

As for the veloce, what type of climbing do you do? Ibasically only do top rope vertical with some slight overhang every now and then, no bouldering at all and nothing super steep or too overhung so Im afraid they might just be too soft?

La MoMoface wrote:

The veloce's would be great for gym only, they're *too* soft for outside, I found them quite painful being able to feel every pebble. But, they're like cheating in the gym. If you're looking for a one quiver shoe, that would be the Arpia, and it does soften up a bit as you break them in. 

Thanks, do you think the Veloce would be too soft for only vertical climbs with some edging indoors and did the Arpias stretch for you?

I wore a pair of Veloce outside for a season and they worked great, amazing grip on limestone and sandstone. I massively sized them down to get some semblance of edging power, from my normal 42 in Scarpa, to 40.5. I wear 43.5 in their approach shoes, sized for hiking. No pain down sizing that much, they fit my foot shape well and are very stretchy. 

I found the rubber kind of crappy on the veloces and the straps didn't last very long (maybe too much jamming or toe hooking?).  That being said they were very comfortable and I could still climb relatively hard in them (toes had a lot of room).

Planet Snoopiter wrote:

Super helpful, thanks! Regarding the stinky arpias, I am contemplating starting to wear thin low cut socks since this also seems to allivate the pain in my messed up heel, should also help with the stink.

As for the veloce, what type of climbing do you do? Ibasically only do top rope vertical with some slight overhang every now and then, no bouldering at all and nothing super steep or too overhung so Im afraid they might just be too soft?

Thanks, do you think the Veloce would be too soft for only vertical climbs with some edging indoors and did the Arpias stretch for you?

yeah definitely try the "no-show" style socks, I wear them all the time now. I like the Fruit of the Loom brand - thin enough to not interfere w/fit, breathe well, just a slight rubber grip strip inside the heel. And no stinky shoes!

I don't climb super hard in the gym, mostly vertical to slightly overhanging, some fairly easy bouldering.

The Arpias will definitely edge better, but I think the Veloces are great for moderate gym routes. Takes some subtle changes in how you use your feet but I think the softness had forced me to develop more overall foot strength. My gym doesn't tend to have many crimpy/edgy routes though (at least that I can climb). 

ETA: a lot of people like to aggressively downsize the veloces, but I tried it and even a half size smaller than my "normal" size was uncomfortable at first. Great after a few climbs. But I'm a wimp when it comes to tight shoes that crunch my toes

Check out the Red Chili Voltage Lace and other Red Chili shoes. I have a super wide forefoot and couldn't find anything from LS or Scarpa that fit other than the Veloce. The Voltage Lace fit great though. Also, they have leather in the toe box so they can stretch a bit to accommodate strange foot shapes. 

I have weird feet with bunions and a “second ankle” on only one foot, and I second high plains recommendation that leather based shoes stretch a lot. They are great for odd foot shapes.

with synthetic shoes, I just take the pain for the first week or two of climbing, and then most shoes get a lot comfier once my foot has reshaped them. I’ve had to do this with all my work boots, and also all my soccer cleats back when I played soccer.

Leather shoes hurt, too, but end up becoming much more comfortable

Also, I’ve noticed that farting noise happens when I am wearing shoes at least 1 full size too big for my foot. 

Farting noises means your shoes are too big length wise or have a bad fitting heel.

Or you ate too many burritos.

Erik Strand wrote:

I have weird feet with bunions and a “second ankle” on only one foot, 

I feel your pain i have second ankles on both feet, kind of a 3rd one on my left foot, and a big pronouncement on the outer edge of my left foot. Sometimes i daydream about getting a massive fat injection or botox to make my feet less boney.

High Plains Drifter wrote:

Check out the Red Chili Voltage Lace and other Red Chili shoes. I have a super wide forefoot and couldn't find anything from LS or Scarpa that fit other than the Veloce. The Voltage Lace fit great though. Also, they have leather in the toe box so they can stretch a bit to accommodate strange foot shapes. 

I recently snagged a pair of these from the EpicTV site. Climbed in them yesterday and they are a great shoe for wide forefoot folks like myself, especially at sub 100$. Pretty similar sizing to Scarpa. 

Red Chilli Voltage Lace

Gotta get over 175$ for free shipping so I usually buy shoes in pairs, one for me, one for my daughter. They also get shoes in sooner than the states, they already have the new 2022 Scarpa Mago, and it looks like the new Instinct slipper is about to drop as well. Mago looks reasonably wide also. 

Thanks for the help everyone! After wearing both shoes at home for a while:

Returned Veloce size 42 - too big, some slippage in heel, feels like many say here that these will stretch a alot. Tried size 41.5 again in store and these were tight while size 41 were painful, could barely take the necessary steps to the test wall.

Tomorrow I will however exchange the arpias for size 41.5 since 42 also feel just a tad too big. Feels like the Arpias strike a really good balance between stiff and soft shoe while also having xs grip 2 sole , just hope these wont up too stinky like some said here :) Too bad that these seem discontinued already after 2 years so will have to find a different pair later down the road :)

So, I know I am a rarity, but I find that my shoes need to hurt initially in order for them to fit right once they’ve broken in. There’s just no getting around it for me. I just broke in a new pair of LS futuras, and I was hardly able to walk in them like you said. I know where shoes are going to hurt on my foot, so as long as the rest of my foot feels good, then I know it’ll work out.

They feel “great” now. Just wore them at the gym for two hours straight

Erik Strand wrote:

So, I know I am a rarity, but I find that my shoes need to hurt initially in order for them to fit right once they’ve broken in. There’s just no getting around it for me. I just broke in a new pair of LS futuras, and I was hardly able to walk in them like you said. I know where shoes are going to hurt on my foot, so as long as the rest of my foot feels good, then I know it’ll work out.

They feel “great” now. Just wore them at the gym for two hours straight

This is how I did with my old shoes and they made my haglunds deformity much worse, every now and then I could literally not walk around at home for a day or two because my heel was in such pain. My podiatrist basically said stop climibing completely  or you are going to risk having to perform surgery.

Doug Chism wrote:

I recently snagged a pair of these from the EpicTV site. Climbed in them yesterday and they are a great shoe for wide forefoot folks like myself, especially at sub 100$. Pretty similar sizing to Scarpa. 

Red Chilli Voltage Lace

Gotta get over 175$ for free shipping so I usually buy shoes in pairs, one for me, one for my daughter. They also get shoes in sooner than the states, they already have the new 2022 Scarpa Mago, and it looks like the new Instinct slipper is about to drop as well. Mago looks reasonably wide also. 

Woah, that's a good deal! I paid $175 at my local store. Might have to order a 2nd pair. 

High Plains Drifter wrote:

Woah, that's a good deal! I paid $175 at my local store. Might have to order a 2nd pair. 

You could grab the Velcro as well to get past free shipping.

My Veloces just gave out (hole in the toebox) and looking for another indoor gym shoe. My complaint is the same regarding the heel fart (I have a narrow heel and a normal forefoot) - will the Arpia provide a better heel fit? 

My 2 cents: I have bad Haglund's deformity and many shoes are very painful. However Veloce's are amazingly comfortable and I wear them for all my gym climbing, sized 2 EU sizes down from my street shoes. But my toes are fine except for being extremely long.

Yeah the heel is loose, but it's a comfy gym shoe so it doesn't bother me much.