ATC device orientation

While using an ATC belay device, I was taught "teeth down" when I first got into climbing. The other day, I was top rope climbing indoors and there was so much tension while my partner and I were lowering each other that he flipped his ATC the other way ("teeth up") to make the lowering process smoother. Is this safe? Just having trouble finding anything online about it. (And the little pics on the ATC shows climber side up and belay side down with teeth down, too.)

Related, is it okay to raise your brake hand above the ATC while lowering to help relieve tension? Or do you always keep your brake hand below ATC, even while lowering?

Thank you!

Elisa Climbs wrote:

While using an ATC belay device, I was taught "teeth down" when I first got into climbing. The other day, I was top rope climbing indoors and there was so much tension while my partner and I were lowering each other that he flipped his ATC the other way ("teeth up") to make the lowering process smoother. Is this safe? Just having trouble finding anything online about it. (And the little pics on the ATC shows climber side up and belay side down with teeth down, too.)

Related, is it okay to raise your brake hand above the ATC while lowering to help relieve tension? Or do you always keep your brake hand below ATC, even while lowering?

Thank you!

There is a high friction mode of use (teeth on the brake strand of the rope) and a low friction made of use. Either is acceptable, although most use the high-friction mode.

Low friction mode is perfectly fine, and usually preferred, for indoor top roping. I also pretty exclusively use it for double rope rappels as well. Your hand can go to wherever the friction is appropriate and you're in control of the rope. That's going to depend on rope diameter, rope type, how much your partner weighs, etc.

Both modes are acceptable.  One is “normal” mode, the other is “fun” mode.  It’s called fun mode, because it’s likely to make inexperienced gym employees spontaneously combust.

Mark Pilate wrote:

Both modes are acceptable.  One is “normal” mode, the other is “fun” mode.  It’s called fun mode, because it’s likely to make inexperienced gym employees spontaneously combust.

Can confirm spontaneous combustion.

ATC-XP and ATC Guide have teeth. The original ATC did not have teeth. Neither did chain links, belay plates, tubers, pyramids, etc. That should tell you that both modes are acceptable.

It's OK to raise your brake hand as you lower. Usually, it's not necessary to raise the brake stand above the ATC

https://blackdiamond-web.cdn.prismic.io/blackdiamond-web/92ef04c4-847c-44ef-91f2-ec78c4418012_M10798_C_ATC-Guide_IS-WEB.pdf

Related question- how do I safely convert an ATC in low friction rappelling mode to a progress capture device for ascending the rope? Can the device be fully loaded through the eyelet hole? In high friction mode, I just clip the guide hole to my belay loop. Tried in low friction the other day and it was really hard to pull slack through, and the basket hitched sling through the eyelet hole made me pucker a bit. 

Brooks K wrote:

Related question- how do I safely convert an ATC in low friction rappelling mode to a progress capture device for ascending the rope? Can the device be fully loaded through the eyelet hole? In high friction mode, I just clip the guide hole to my belay loop. Tried in low friction the other day and it was really hard to pull slack through, and the basket hitched sling through the eyelet hole made me pucker a bit. 

sorry, you had me until the bolded text. what eyelet hole are you basket hitching? the hole meant to release the device in guide mode or the "guide mode" feature?

curt86iroc wrote:

sorry, you had me until the bolded text. what eyelet hole are you basket hitching? the hole meant to release the device in guide mode or the "guide mode" feature?

Yes, I was referring to the hole used to release the device when used in normal guide mode. When I’m rappelling in low friction mode, that hole is on the climber side, so I basket hitched a sling through it and clipped it to my belay loop to convert to progress capture. 

Brooks K wrote:

Related question- how do I safely convert an ATC in low friction rappelling mode to a progress capture device for ascending the rope? Can the device be fully loaded through the eyelet hole? In high friction mode, I just clip the guide hole to my belay loop. Tried in low friction the other day and it was really hard to pull slack through, and the basket hitched sling through the eyelet hole made me pucker a bit. 

Why not just ascend with prussiks? Seems like a better option than trying to force this to work. 

Adam Fleming wrote:

Why not just ascend with prussiks? Seems like a better option than trying to force this to work. 

This is used in conjunction with prussiks. I prussik the load like with a leg loop, stand up on that, and use the atc to capture progress. Quicker than 2 prussiks since the ATC is one locker away from this setup assuming I’m already rappelling

Brooks K wrote:

Yes, I was referring to the hole used to release the device when used in normal guide mode. When I’m rappelling in low friction mode, that hole is on the climber side, so I basket hitched a sling through it and clipped it to my belay loop to convert to progress capture. 

got it. 

so me personally, i want the device oriented in high friction mode if I'm going to ascend. this means if I think there is a chance i'll need to move back up the rope, I'm going to start out in high friction mode. in the rare instance where i descend in low friction mode, but then need to move up, i'm flipping my device.

Brooks K wrote:

Related question- how do I safely convert an ATC in low friction rappelling mode to a progress capture device for ascending the rope? Can the device be fully loaded through the eyelet hole? In high friction mode, I just clip the guide hole to my belay loop. Tried in low friction the other day and it was really hard to pull slack through, and the basket hitched sling through the eyelet hole made me pucker a bit. 

I believe you are supposed to use it as a foot ascender, I could be wrong though.

This Grivel video shows it being used as a foot ascender:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9Ed3KwQb-w

Brooks K wrote:

This is used in conjunction with prussiks. I prussik the load like with a leg loop, stand up on that, and use the atc to capture progress. Quicker than 2 prussiks since the ATC is one locker away from this setup assuming I’m already rappelling

Yes, I'm aware you can flip a plate to ascend when it's set up in high friction mode. You've told us it's not as easy or confidence inspiring in low friction mode; you need to basket hitch the tiny eye with a sling and you said it isn't easy to pull rope through. So is it really quicker? 

Igor Chained wrote:

I believe you are supposed to use it as a foot ascender, I could be wrong though.

This Grivel video shows it being used as a foot ascender:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9Ed3KwQb-w

If you are already rappelling with a guide style tube device why would you take yourself off rappel to reconfigure it as a foot ascender when you can accomplish the same thing by simply clipping another carabiner into the guide mode hole?

A prusick tied above your belay device with a sling clipped to it makes a perfect foot loop to ascend the rope and the atc in guide mode on your harness will autoblock to keep your progress. You can even clip the brake strand into the carabiner on the prusick to make a 3:1 pulley for more mechanical advantage.