Is YDS dead for sport climbing?

With Flex Luthor, I think more of the media I've seen has discussed it as a 9b vs 9a+ when Tommy did it. Or maybe it was a 9a/9a+. Who knows and does this mean that YDS is dead for high end sport climbing? And that, maybe, if we see YDS at some point in the future we'll know that they're talking about trad climbing but also we'll have to learn what these french grades? I'm open to it but have to open a dumb app to compare still, just like F to C which is ridiculous because F is waaaaay better for what weather feels like to a human (not science).

what’s YDS

I really like the way Carlo proposed the use of the different grading systems (I forget what podcast) 

V scale means Boulder 

French means sport climb

YDS means gear climb. (Mixed too?) 

Why aren’t we doing this 

almostrad wrote:

YDS means gear climb. (Mixed too?) 

Brits might dispute this.

I think this change in mindset is due to so many American climbers spending big chunks of time in Europe (particularly limestone) over the past decade or so. I know in preparation for one my trips to Slovenia I started training myself to think in French grades (you can change MP to display both!) since I knew if I asked anyone about the grade of a climb they would say it that way. This is also combined with lots of more European climber media entering the US market (Reel Rock covering Sharma and Ondra in Spain, Magnus' and Ondra's Youtube Channels, competition climbing taking off, etc.), as well as most of the recent famous hard climbs being in Spain/Norway/Italy. 

Personally I'm fine YDS for gear climbs and French for sport climbs. Also please can we get ride of the Font bouldering system? :) 

How do you get mp to display both grading systems? I played around in the settings, albeit for a short time, but could only get either or. Would dig both being visible if possible 

Sam Untersee wrote:

How do you get mp to display both grading systems? I played around in the settings, albeit for a short time, but could only get either or. Would dig both being visible if possible 

https://www.mountainproject.com/international-climbing-grades

On the left side there should be little check-boxes for selecting grading systems you want displayed. 

Ab bummer, doesnt work on mobile. Thanks amyway! 

Better yet, how about French grades, but written in Roman numerals?  So, they sort of look like UIAA?  And on the topos, put the pitch number at the beginning of the pitch, rather than at the top of the pitch.  Add to that, double, even triple negatives and colloquialisms, really obscure ones, abound in route descriptions, to defy even the most capable translation attempts into other languages.

A veritable new golden age of climbing, where nearly every ascent will feel like a first ascent?

There should be one rating solution the rule them all - The Grand Unification Rating System. Gonna need some Einsteins on this, pronto.

Cherokee Nunes wrote:

There should be one rating solution the rule them all - The Grand Unification Rating System. Gonna need some Einsteins on this, pronto.

How would we identify the crux of a sport as a V-whatever boulder problem though?!

I’ll use a Frenchman’s goddamn toothbrush before I’ll use his grading system.

Honestly though, I think we lost this one guys. The French system just covers more climbing in more places. We can make a stand with feet and inches, but might have to admit YDS is niche.

Justin Trent wrote:

what’s YDS

Yosemite Decimal System.

petzl logic wrote:

... just like F to C which is ridiculous because F is waaaaay better for what weather feels like to a human (not science).

That's simply a function of what you are used to.

The biggest mess (in my view) is that top boulderers, even in the US, often use Font grades for problems while sometimes mixing in French route grades.  And they're indistinguishable without context.

"How hard did you think that route was?"

"Well, it is probably 7c+ to start, but then the crux is 8A or so, which means it's probably in the 8c range."

(Translation: "it's probably 13a to start, but there's a V11 crux so the route is probably in the 14b range.")

Oftentimes the Font grades are written with CAPITAL letters and French grades with lowercase letters (as above), but that doesn't come across orally.

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And just think: some day someone will climb 10a.

Honestly, having traveled around and climbed all over the world quite a bit, the Eubank system is the best. Just numbers from 1 to the 30's. No letters, no plus'. Simple and straight forward

Marc801 C wrote:

That's simply a function of what you are used to.

I disagree. If you think about it terms of resolution North America covers basically -50F to 140F. The same celsius is (-45 to 60). So there are more shades, literally, between the min and max values with Fahrenheit. The difference looks even more clear if you don't use extreme temps to set the min and max. This is unfortunately a fight that has already been waged throughout the world and F has lost, but having that shading makes a big difference for the real feeling of weather. Having to live in C-land, -12 is normal cold and -17 is starting to get intolerably cold, it's simply too close I find (though I am forced to use it). I would never argue that F has a place for chemistry or critical applications, but it's good for what it is, which is describing the weather in a pretty easy scale 0(cold cold) - 100(hot hot) that works well for a lot of people on this planet. I don't ever want to feel what 100C is like and don't have too much trouble remembering 32, but that is the only ask of F. And if science is so important why not just use Kelvin? 

It's not me, it's the world that is wrong!

I feel like discussing units of measurement is a perfect measurement of the issues with internet forums. There are absolute pros to using imperial/Fahrenheit/ most measurement systems ( I am not saying they are better). Specifically on the temperature discussion you have to think about not just universality but also applicability. Does a scale 0 to 10 make more sense or less sense than a scale 0 to 1000? Or 0 to 100? There is something to be said about intuition. 

Like Saign said, counting is the easiest form of measurement. 

Aaron K wrote:

I must admit saying YDS grades out loud makes me feel like a backwards provincial, like if we don't include the 5. every time we might get confused and think this vertical wall is a class 2 scramble or something. 

So even if we aren't going French, I say ax at 5. 

The 5. explicitly tells someone what grading system he is reading.  There's a lot of value in that.

I think switching to different sport and trad grades makes sense. I get a little annoyed at the typical disparity between sport and trad YDS grades (almost a full number grade now?) As Saign said above, the Australians have the most logical system, I don't like that the French grades use numbers, letters and plusses (why no minuses BTW?)

David House wrote:

I think switching to different sport and trad grades makes sense. I get a little annoyed at the typical disparity between sport and trad YDS grades (almost a full number grade now?) As Saign said above, the Australians have the most logical system, I don't like that the French grades use numbers, letters and plusses (why no minuses BTW?)

How about a French topo that rates a pitch at V+?  What do we think that is in YDS?