How to size AT boots for skimo/climbing?

Looking to get a pair of lightweight AT boots for multi-day trips and skimo objectives. Traditional advice with ski boots is to size them with your toe barely touching the front for downhill, however this seems like a horrible idea with lots of toe bang for frontpointing. Do y'all generally size up your boots a little bit for this sort of thing, or stick with a standard skiing fit and just put up with it?

It depends on what your primary intent is and what your feet can tolerate. But it's all compromises.

I size mine pretty much like my mountaineering boots, which turns out to be 2 full Mondo sizes over my alpine boots. They don't ski that bad, but I'm a shit skier to begin with.

I have princess feet and some old cold injury. I think most people do a half to full size, if anything.

I guess I never try to achieve anything other than a “that feels awesome” fit.  Never micro managed toe position, etc.  Then, if I need to micro adjust, have always been able to with the lacing, BOA, or buckles.  

For your question, my Fischer Travers AT boots are sized same as my climbing boots.   The BOA system works well for quick adjustments and they are light AF.   They climb great (for an AT boot) and  fit any crampon with no heel lever interference in the back.   

I sized my AT boots up 1 mondo size from my resort boots. It's slightly noticeable while skiing (a little sloppy) but they're more comfortable for all day use. I recently climbed WI3 in them and felt great.

I think if ski boots fit you well they will work great for climbing too. I ski and climb in the Hoji Free that was sized for me just to go skiing by a bootfitter, and they are awesome. No issues on WI4 (besides that they are still ski boots, so lateral ankle flex/french technique is terrible). Wear em all day just fine. If you're going to super high altitude then maybe size up cause I've heard people's feet can swell, although I plan to just bring heated socks for my next high altitude trip so I can ski down well. 

Don’t listen to us, go talk to a bootfitter.

Listen to this though, blindly sizing up boots is a recipe for a bad time. 

Kip Kasper wrote:

Don’t listen to us, go talk to a bootfitter.

Listen to this though, blindly sizing up boots is a recipe for a bad time. 

Yup... there are too many what ifs to make a one size fits all statement...

My skimo boots are sized for skimo.  They climb fine... Too many folks seem to not realize that if you do a ton of climbing in your skimo boots, the life span of said boots drop rapidly.

Kip Kasper wrote:

Don’t listen to us, go talk to a bootfitter.

Listen to this though, blindly sizing up boots is a recipe for a bad time. 

Unfortunately I'm in the midwest for a time and on a budget, so boot fitters aren't really in the cards right now.

Ryan Mac wrote:

Unfortunately I'm in the midwest for a time and on a budget, so boot fitters aren't really in the cards right now.

Well you probably aren’t doing any ski mountaineering in the Midwest, and most mountain towns close to ski mountaineering have a decent ski shop and boot fitter, plus you’re about to drop $700+ on a pair of boots. Seems like spending an extra hour in a local ski shop when you get to the place you’re actually going to be ski mountaineering is worth it to have a pair of boots that fits right. Or just order from Backcountry or REI and accept that you might get boots that don’t fit right might be the cost of getting 15% off and an hour of your time

Matt Z wrote:

Well you probably aren’t doing any ski mountaineering in the Midwest, and most mountain towns close to ski mountaineering have a decent ski shop and boot fitter, plus you’re about to drop $700+ on a pair of boots. Seems like spending an extra hour in a local ski shop when you get to the place you’re actually going to be ski mountaineering is worth it to have a pair of boots that fits right. Or just order from Backcountry or REI and accept that you might get boots that don’t fit right might be the cost of getting 15% off and an hour of your time.

Budget=secondhand

Where are you in the midwest currently?   (There are good fitters)  
What are your climbing boots and size?
can ballpark you from that.

besides, you can wear Crocs for WI 3 and below, so warm and comfy is best for that range.  Otherwise what are your objectives for your budget skimo rig of dubious fit? 

St. Louis (there's one shop in town, they only have one AT boot in one size)

Phantom techs (current model), size 46

Objectives are relatively...open at this stage. Someone on here suggested Shuksan as a good introductory run and that looks fun. I'll probably head to New Zealand and Australia in the near future and do some hut trips, which can often involve marginal conditions and a lot of walking. Overall preference is something that's reasonably comfortable for that, significantly less worried about hard charging downhill ability. Frankly I'm not a good enough skier for that.

Budget is ≤$400 for boots, lower is better. Got a couple offers for "used once" boots on here. I can also get some manufacturers at a pretty high discount through work, so could go that route and get new. Stock is pretty limited at the moment though.

Rather than ask here ask a professional ski boot fitter. SkimoCo.com company in SLC Utah that has a lot of boot options and knowledge in what you are looking for. I'd reach out to them for ideas and help. They know their stuff and are super friendly.

Second the SkimoCo plug, but only recommend you bother them if you’re planning to buy from them.  Or, if you like your climbing boot fit, just Get Mondo 30’s and be done.  99% chance you’ll be fine.  Or go 1/2 up or down based on how optimal your phantom Techs feel or the direction you want to go.   There’s always a bit of chance buying used or online vs lining up 6 pair in a store and comparing.  It just is what it is.  After all, You’ll never really know till to you settle on a specific pair and get your foot in them….and then ultimately ski/climb them. 

Mark Pilate wrote:

Second the SkimoCo plug, but only recommend you bother them if you’re planning to buy from them.  Or, if you like your climbing boot fit, just Get Mondo 30’s and be done.  99% chance you’ll be fine.  Or go 1/2 up or down based on how optimal your phantom Techs feel or the direction you want to go.   There’s always a bit of chance buying used or online vs lining up 6 pair in a store and comparing.  It just is what it is.  After all, You’ll never really know till to you settle on a specific pair and get your foot in them….and then ultimately ski/climb them. 

Honestly if I could pay a boot fitting fee for the service and trying things on I’d be happy with that, but it’s really hard to justify spending the full  retail price when I can get them for several hundred dollars less.

Well, coincidentally, I just got some new skis from Skimo and they have a notice online saying “boot fitting by appointment only”…

Mark Pilate wrote:

Well, coincidentally, I just got some new skis from Skimo and they have a notice online saying “boot fitting by appointment only”…

FYI that's a COVID limitation, not a business decision.

One advantage of getting boots from Skimo.co (where I got my touring boots) is that you get the fitting and modification for free. So, for example, I have terrible fitting feet for mountaineering boots (11.5 EEEE). I can get in to a size 47 phantom tech (from many years ago), but have a ton of problems with heel lift and my foot sliding forward due to the fact that I'm really a size 11.5.

Cue buying my touring boots, I was expecting a terrible experience, I actually bought my shells in size 30 at first (online from skimo.co) when I got there the checked the size and said "these are the wrong size for you. Then when they squeezed me into the 29.5 they just punched the shell where my foot was widest. My AT boots are all day comfortable (on par with my mountaineering boots).

TL;DR - The service and expertise at skimo.co is well worth the premium if you're local

EDIT: I never answered OPs actual question - Technically my AT boots are sized smaller than my mountaineering boots

Too bad Mountain Tools does not do skimo. They are the best at getting boots fitted without going into the shop. Matter of fact, even before the internet exploded, they were good at it.

Ryan Mac wrote:

St. Louis (there's one shop in town, they only have one AT boot in one size)

Phantom techs (current model), size 46

Objectives are relatively...open at this stage. Someone on here suggested Shuksan as a good introductory run and that looks fun. I'll probably head to New Zealand and Australia in the near future and do some hut trips, which can often involve marginal conditions and a lot of walking. Overall preference is something that's reasonably comfortable for that, significantly less worried about hard charging downhill ability. Frankly I'm not a good enough skier for that.

Budget is ≤$400 for boots, lower is better. Got a couple offers for "used once" boots on here. I can also get some manufacturers at a pretty high discount through work, so could go that route and get new. Stock is pretty limited at the moment though.

No helpful info on your direct question, but when you talk about hut trips and walking in NZ, can I ask what sort of routes do you have in mind, and where are you envisaging wearing your AT boots? Any walking below the snowline would very quickly see such boots getting trashed, I'd think, but maybe I'm misunderstanding what you have in mind.

Mike V. wrote:

FYI that's a COVID limitation, not a business decision.

One advantage of getting boots from Skimo.co (where I got my touring boots) is that you get the fitting and modification for free. So, for example, I have terrible fitting feet for mountaineering boots (11.5 EEEE). I can get in to a size 47 phantom tech (from many years ago), but have a ton of problems with heel lift and my foot sliding forward due to the fact that I'm really a size 11.5.

Cue buying my touring boots, I was expecting a terrible experience, I actually bought my shells in size 30 at first (online from skimo.co) when I got there the checked the size and said "these are the wrong size for you. Then when they squeezed me into the 29.5 they just punched the shell where my foot was widest. My AT boots are all day comfortable (on par with my mountaineering boots).

TL;DR - The service and expertise at skimo.co is well worth the premium if you're local

EDIT: I never answered OPs actual question - Technically my AT boots are sized smaller than my mountaineering boots

Another reason to go to skimo is for warranty purposes. If you ski a lot on Backcountry gear, you're bound to break something that costs 500++ at some point, and skimo is great at helping you repair your gear under warranty. For example, in the past year I have snapped a rotation 10, and cracked my scarpa maestrale's shell. Skimo got me a new binding toe piece and set of boots for free, and each time the replacement took less than a week. Talk about customer service! Ultimately this saved me around 1000 dollars (scarpa blew me off when I contacted them myself), and weeks of waiting.

Ryan Mac wrote:

Traditional advice with ski boots is to size them with your toe barely touching the front for downhill, however this seems like a horrible idea with lots of toe bang for frontpointing. Do y'all generally size up your boots a little bit for this sort of thing, or stick with a standard skiing fit and just put up with it?

I go a bit larger for backcountry/AT boots.  I don't want my toe touching the front of the boot.  For me, it's uncomfortable for skinning and climbing.  

I also wear a slightly thicker sock with my AT boots.  For long days of touring, I want my sock to be able to absorb all of the sweat and moisture without getting saturated.  A thicker sock has more ability to do this.  (Also, it's warmer.)  

Bottom line is that my AT boots are more of a "comfort fit" instead of the "performance fit" of my downhill boots.