Ice tool BD Viper

Hey, 

I have a question about the ice tools option. Last winter I started lightly climbing ice and mix terrain.Up until now I have been renting equipment from the climbing club I am a member of. However, I came across a sale at the store next door where they have a BD Viper for about $170.  I've been discouraged by people in the climbing club because Vipers don't have a curved handle such as Petzl Nomic. I read a few articles on the web but still I would like to ask your opinion as well. What type of handle do you prefer? 

I would also like to know your general opinion on the BD Viper. It seems to me that especially in this sector the development went incredibly fast forward, however Vipers remain relatively unchanged for a long time. What do you think about it? 

Thanks and have a nice winter! 

Matěj Eberle wrote:

Hey, 

I have a question about the ice tools option. Last winter I started lightly climbing ice and mix terrain.Up until now I have been renting equipment from the climbing club I am a member of. However, I came across a sale at the store next door where they have a BD Viper for about $170.  I've been discouraged by people in the climbing club because Vipers don't have a curved handle such as Petzl Nomic. I read a few articles on the web but still I would like to ask your opinion as well. What type of handle do you prefer? 

I would also like to know your general opinion on the BD Viper. It seems to me that especially in this sector the development went incredibly fast forward, however Vipers remain relatively unchanged for a long time. What do you think about it? 

Thanks and have a nice winter! 

Hey! I think the vipers are totally underrated. They aren’t as sexy as Quarks or north machines, but they have other advantages: the hammer is fantastic, and so is the shovel if need those things. Also, they are very durable. Again, not as elegant as some of the others but you can really bash those tools and they feel very solid and stiff. They also have less moving parts than the Quark (The old quark was better, in my opinion with solid grip rest) and a great spike on the bottom. I don’t use the moving grip rest—I take it off. North machine is good too, but expensive and I wish i had a spike on the bottom. For the price of 170$, vipers are great!

Just depends on what you’re climbing. If you’re climbing a bunch of steep ice and mixed terrain where you’re switching hands regularly (aka using the upper grips) a more aggressive tool like the nomic will be a lot more friendly. The balance really shifts on the vipers going from the lower grip to the upper which has cause the tool to pop off when hooked in my experience but I’m also not some amazing ice/mixed climber. If you’re just doing easier routes the vipers are plenty good. 

In bullet hard ice I find that the viper rotate in my hand when hitting ice at an angle,  I did not have that issue with Petzl's quark and Dmm Apex, the more agressive angle of the shaft and the flat/oval handle makes these tools less prone to rotate in my hand. 

Great ice tools and have used them since 2015 (Al version). I also have have the older Grivel carbon Machines. Have used the wife's carbon Vipers and found them to be durable. They kinda work for Alpine snow plunging. Also they have option for quick release leash for the really cold days when you cannot feel your hands around the tool (think WY and MT). 

Terry Parker wrote:

Great ice tools and have used them since 2015 (Al version). I also have have the older Grivel carbon Machines. Have used the wife's carbon Vipers and found them to be durable. They kinda work for Alpine snow plunging. Also they have option for quick release leash for the really cold days when you cannot feel your hands around the tool (think WY and MT). 

What do you mean you can't feel your hands on really cold days, I was climbing last weekend at -32c (-26f) and my partner was climbing bare hands on a new pair of elite climb with h a carbon handle. If the tool freeze your hands to point of taking back leashes, change the tool 

I use a viper and quark and can't really tell the difference between them.

I've got a pair of old vipers for sale.  4 picks, 2 sets of leashes, extra hammer head, wrenches, holsters. . .

$250 plus shipping for all of it.

These are sold.

Francois Dumas wrote:

What do you mean you can't feel your hands on really cold days, I was climbing last weekend at -32c (-26f) and my partner was climbing bare hands on a new pair of elite climb with h a carbon handle. If the tool freeze your hands to point of taking back leashes, change the tool 

oh wow your friend sounds really tough. At -32C I would have gloves even if I weren’t touching anything, unless of course I were interested in frostbite. 

DeLa Cruce wrote:

oh wow your friend sounds really tough. At -32C I would have gloves even if I weren’t touching anything, unless of course I were interested in frostbite. 

I didn't mean that as a pissing contest, the point is  you get frostbite when the outside suck heat faster than you body can generate it, if you were to grip an Alu rod with heated mitts at -40 you would still get frostbite because the Alu has a thermal conductivity that moves heat away from your hands, a tool that has plastic over an Alu frame will be more prone to cold hands then a tool with a rubber/ silicone/carbon handle that is more insulated. 

Francois Dumas wrote:

What do you mean you can't feel your hands on really cold days, I was climbing last weekend at -32c (-26f) and my partner was climbing bare hands on a new pair of elite climb with h a carbon handle. If the tool freeze your hands to point of taking back leashes, change the tool 

OK Pics or it didn’t happen.  I’ve climbed at -26 F 

As a Minnesota native of Scandinavian descent and lifelong winter sports enthusiast, I consider my self pretty cold impervious, but…

You’re not leading an ice pitch barehanded at -26 F unless you have nerve damage already. 

Maybe some ice bouldering at most.

Edit:  just saw your last post.  Agree with your thermal analysis, but still dubious of barehanded climbing at - 26 F/ -32 C

Mark Pilate wrote:

OK Pics or it didn’t happen.  I’ve climbed at -26 F 

As a Minnesota native of Scandinavian descent and lifelong winter sports enthusiast, I consider my self pretty cold impervious, but…

You’re not leading an ice pitch barehanded at -26 F unless you have nerve damage already. 

Maybe some ice bouldering at most.

Edit:  just saw your last post.  Agree with your thermal analysis, but still dubious of barehanded climbing at - 26 F/ -32 C

here's the pic, FYI he was following, not leading, 

Francois Dumas wrote:

here's the pic, FYI he was following, not leading, 

Nice try.  I can tell by that pic that it’s no colder than -4 C there.  :)

Ok ok.  I give.   You guys are officially crazy motherfuckers.   Barehanded at - 32 C.  I bet you even hold the screws in your mouth. Lol. 

The Vipers are a great tool. I typically average 50-60 days on ice per year. Between me and my wife, we have a set of Vipers, Cobras, Nomics, and North Machines. For typical WI3-WI5, they are great. They swing well, and they penetrate well in cold, hard ice. If you are climbing pure ice, vipers aren‘t gonna hold ya back.