Hardest trad route in Colorado?

Is there a known hardest trad route in Colorado?

china doll has gotten a lot of press going without bolts, i wouldn’t be surprised if something is harder though. 

I've heard the project at the Possibility Wall is being worked on again and might be 15a which would be crazy. As for things that have actually been sent, 14a seems to be the hardest with quite a few tied for the honor China Doll, Viceroy, Iron Monkey, Cheating Reality, Lost Horizons, Pure Pressure, and Dunn-Westbay Direct.

Umph slot

Pretty sure it's still a project? But freeing the aid roof at castle rock in bocan?

If access can be had, I always thought Sphinx Crack near Pine in S. Platte was the hardest free classic trad route. There's another between Lyons and Estes Park high up on the right I can't seem to find mention of anymore also. Can't recall the name of it either.

Another vote for umph slot

Tucker M wrote:

Is there a known hardest trad route in Colorado?

Define "hardest", otherwise it's a nonsense question.

overall i think it would be one of those hard routes on the diamond.

slim wrote:

overall i think it would be one of those hard routes on the diamond.

Exactly.  Which is harder?

1) Riding your bicycle from Boulder to the trailhead carrying all your gear, running up the trail to Longs Peak, flashing a 7-12 pitch route of 5.10-5.12 at an elevation of almost 14,000', then running down and getting on your bike for the ride home finishing in 24hrs, OR

2) China Doll?

Nolan Yahok wrote:

If only we had some sort of grading system for climbs....

And people wonder why MP sucks.  

I'm just here searching for the truth. Can you explain this grading system please?

Tucker M wrote:

I'm just here searching for the truth. Can you explain this grading system please?

I tend to agree with J. Byrnes. Our grading system in the US is greatly flawed as it does not quantify the myriad of other factors beyond technical difficulty.

Perhaps a better way to evaluate how "hard" a climb is might be to consider how much time/experience/effort it takes to achieve success. There are plenty of super strong gym climbers that are shitty climbers overall.

John Byrnes wrote:

Exactly.  Which is harder?

1) Riding your bicycle from Boulder to the trailhead carrying all your gear, running up the trail to Longs Peak, flashing a 7-12 pitch route of 5.10-5.12 at an elevation of almost 14,000', then running down and getting on your bike for the ride home finishing in 24hrs, OR

2) China Doll?

China Doll.

Has anyone ever done China Doll without ever clipping the bolts?  

Mikey Schaefer wrote:

Has anyone ever done China Doll without ever clipping the bolts?  

A few times, 

http://www.alpinist.com/doc/web08s/newswire-china-doll-segal

https://www.rockandice.com/climbing-news/molly-mitchell-sends-china-doll-5-14-trad/

Mikey Schaefer wrote:

Has anyone ever done China Doll without ever clipping the bolts?  

I'm assuming you mean without ever clipping the bolts while working the route. I don't know the answer to this, but notably the crux of the 14a version is on the extension past the anchor for the bolted sport pitch, so the crux can't be worked while clipping bolts. With some directionals, which could be gear, the route can be worked on top rope, in that case it would be entirely possible to avoid the bolts while still rehearsing the moves before attempting the lead on gear.

I would think full dunn westbay would be harder than china doll for numerous reasons. Altitude, conditions, logistics of working, lack of video footage, likely wearing heavier clothes, teying to round up a partner, etc. It would be interesting to hear from somebody who has sent both of them. 

Alex R wrote:

I'm assuming you mean without ever clipping the bolts while working the route.

Ahh, I see. It's the whole, "it's easier because bolts are there as an option on what's now something that can be done on gear thus less committing to work,  thus easier" can of worms, which woo boy is more of an issue than I think this thread is ready for. 

I think Madaleine Sorkin has said publicly that they're going to work Dunn Westbay, which as the total hack of a climber that I am, I'm very psyched to watch unfold. 

Ya, I'm honestly not very familiar with China Doll and its history (I'm not much of CO climber...)  I was wondering if it normally gets worked with the bolts and then head pointed on gear.  I have heard that referred to as a green point. 

When I’ve seen people on it, they have clipped the bolts and worked out the moves and gear and then (I’m guessing) eventually did a pure gear ascent. The bolts end partway up, so working the full thing bolt to bolt is not an option. I’m guessing that a lot of people start by doing a lot of top roping, but I’ve never actually seen that in person.

Anyway, hardest in Colorado has to be Dunn-Westbay Direct, right?

Edit: just wanted to add another 14a - Jason Haas’ Comprometido in the South Platte. He also has a gorgeous 13d called Question your Progression, which might not be the hardest but is an outrageously aesthetically pleasing line.