severe raynauds--alternatives to hand warming packets?

i've had lifelong raynauds that has started to worsen recently. it's to the point where i've noticed that even in gym settings i'm becoming heavily restricted on what type of routes i can do. it is especially prominent in my non-dominant hand--currently sitting in a 72*F apt and the fingers are ice cold.

this is probably an idiotic question, but would it be frowned upon to wear something like a crack glove with a bunch of those packets shoved up the back of my hand, or taping one down above my knuckles? i know how to manage my symptoms in high-altitude/winter environments, but for obvious reasons those same methods don't really translate to a gym environment

BD makes a heated chalk bag.  Pricey, but if you're desperate...

I’d see a doctor. I had all sorts of autoimmune flare ups and worsenings in my late 20’s. If you’re getting it at 72 degrees, I’m not sure heat is going to help. It sounds like your body is deciding to shut the blood off for some other reason. Hopefully a specialist, wholistic doc, or dietician can help.

I would see a doctor and I would not climb. if there is limited blood flow to your fingers and you have that much trouble keeping them warm then you are just asking for a serious finger injury imo. 

Maybe stating the obvious but have you looked into your alcohol, caffeine and nicotine intake? These all seem to be major contributors to Raynaud's in otherwise healthy persons. 

Edit: just looked up the conversion from Fahrenheit to Celsius. I'd go and see a doctor!

UpHill Athlete Forum

Perhaps this could help?

jcs

Magnesium supplements were a big help for me. I had issues with an undiagnosed condition with these symptoms more often when I was younger. I understand that phytic acid can lead to this deficiency and result in the symptoms I had. I regularly ate many foods (including loads of peanut butter) with this anti-nutrient. The first time I took magnesium my hands were suddenly super warm within 15 minutes, curious if anyone else has had such a sudden change? Anyways, just my $0.02, hope it helps someone!

https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/the-best-hand-warmer/amp/

Many USB chargeable ones for crag 

I posted what worked for me here:

https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/121772782/painfully-numb-fingers-seeking-tips-on-rocking-climbing-in-the-winter

Maybe see if OP had any success? I emailed with her a few times and she was going to try the arganine-ornathine supplements. 

There is anecdotal evidence that cold exposure (cold shower, ice bath, etc.) helps some people with Raynaud's.  Not very helpful I know, but another option to consider if you haven't already tried it.

Tom Sherman wrote:

I’d see a doctor. I had all sorts of autoimmune flare ups and worsenings in my late 20’s. If you’re getting it at 72 degrees, I’m not sure heat is going to help. It sounds like your body is deciding to shut the blood off for some other reason. Hopefully a specialist, wholistic doc, or dietician can help.

i'll definitely ask my PCP about supplements or a medication, but i'm pretty sure this is just stress aggravation of my normally-already-terrible circulation system; i have primary type raynauds [the non-autoimmune sort] and don't drink, have a pretty low caffeine intake all things considered, etc. i was a purple-toed preteen (-:

so, i'm not super worried--heat always helps! i'm just really irritated now that i'm climbing at a skill level that sort of necessitates being able to crimp.

I started using hot rocks this past fall. Pretty simple, just take a few stones, put em on a jet boil burner and heat until they are hot. When it’s in the 30-40s outside this works quite well for me. I guess you could go out to the gym parking lot to do it. Way cheaper and more effective than hand warmers. 

I know you said it was non autoimmune, makes me think you just don’t know what your autoimmune condition is yet.

For me, Reynauds came up before I had any idea something else was wrong with me.

I did stop ice climbing and I’ve had a few miserable days on rock but I manage. I just try to stay warm. Down to the core and heart rate up. Once my hands turn white, unless it’s a hot tub, almost nothing from the outside helps. It’s got to be from the core. 

Can you run laps on auto belays or hangboard in between? Can you switch to steeper routes with generally bigger holds. Maybe bouldering? Burpee’s between routes?

highaltitudeflatulentexpulsion wrote:

I know you said it was non autoimmune, makes me think you just don’t know what your autoimmune condition is yet.

For me, Reynauds came up before I had any idea something else was wrong with me.

I did stop ice climbing and I’ve had a few miserable days on rock but I manage. I just try to stay warm. Down to the core and heart rate up. Once my hands turn white, unless it’s a hot tub, almost nothing from the outside helps. It’s got to be from the core. 

Can you run laps on auto belays or hangboard in between? Can you switch to steeper routes with generally bigger holds. Maybe bouldering? Burpee’s between routes?

given that my very active mother just got hit with rheumatoid arthiritis in her early 50's, you may have a point, but even then--i've had it since i was kid. surely something more serious would've happened by now if it was an AI disorder, right? i had some weird gastrointestinal stuff a few years ago but went vegan and my symptoms cleared up almost immediately.

i do the hangboards and juggier routes, definitely. and bouldering to figure out "simpler" ways of using my hands/palms for tighter holds, too. hadn't thought of doing "warm-ups" between routes--will definitely try that

wanted to update this thread--much appreciation everyone who told me to follow-up with my doctor. while there have been other things i now realize are probably symptoms of an autoimmune issue [extreme fatigue, rashes, illogical joint pain, unexplainable hypertension etc] the hand numbness/circulation loss has definitely worsened the past couple weeks. i can't really do anything climbing-wise with my hands beyond jugs because of the stiffness. hearing from his PA that purple/blue hands in a 75 degree room "isn't normal at all actually, even in lifelong cases" was a bit alarming. we're running some tests to confirm his suspicions now & i'm being referred to a rheumatologist. thanks MP

Erroll M wrote:

wanted to update this thread--much appreciation everyone who told me to follow-up with my doctor. while there have been other things i now realize are probably symptoms of an autoimmune issue [extreme fatigue, rashes, illogical joint pain, unexplainable hypertension etc] the hand numbness/circulation loss has definitely worsened the past couple weeks. i can't really do anything climbing-wise with my hands beyond jugs because of the stiffness. hearing from his PA that purple/blue hands in a 75 degree room "isn't normal at all actually, even in lifelong cases" was a bit alarming. we're running some tests to confirm his suspicions now & i'm being referred to a rheumatologist. thanks MP

Good luck and I hope you and your doctor can figure out a plan to help with your symptoms!

Typing is hard right now because I'm sore from my booster but if you want to chat on the phone, shoot me a PM! I don't have RS but my hands tend toward perma-cold, so I've come up with lots of hacks over the years. I spent winter 2010 sleeping outside at 9,200' in -40F lows and feel like I have my systems dialed for a skinny, high -metab person.

I struggle with cold fingers too. It's not perfect, but this is what I do:

• Insulated belay gloves
• Heated chalk bag
• Electric hand warmers
• Electric gloves

When resting I try to always have my fingers in contact with a heat source and covered in pockets or gloves.

Erroll M wrote:

i'm being referred to a rheumatologist. thanks MP

Best of luck getting this sorted out. In the meantime, remember that if you keep the rest of your body warm it will be easier for your hands to stay warmer as well, even with Raynaud. And it is easier to wear a jacket rock climbing then it is to wear gloves! If you are already doing all the right things and taking care of any underlying conditions, consider talking to your provider about pharmacological treatment as there are some things that can help. 

update to this thread to anyone who had been following. please take this as a warning to those who have had these issues in the long term while also dealing with spinal or back issues--be proactive! do your PT and take the pins/needles seriously. any sudden changes in your nerve sensitivity should be taken very seriously. i cannot believe how lucky i am right now. 

long story short: the raynauds is cured along with other neuro issues [buckling knees, loss of sensation]--as they were symptoms of two herniated cervical discs and a ruptured c6-c7 disc, the ruptured one gradually compressing against a cluster of nerve stems and cutting off bloodflow to adjacent arteries. the medical team has no clue how long the compression has been going on for except to say that it would've been catastrophic and they had no clue how i was still functioning.

i'm not sure what exactly happened monday morning except that i must have bent in exactly the wrong way and that ruptured disc slid further out and blocked my spinal fluid/completely compressed my spinal cord. waves of bilateral nerve pain, etc. pushed through the pain to get to work at the gym I open at, where i then collapsed, where one of my morning regular climbers took me to the ER. after an MRI and a few hours of doctors coming in/out i was essentially told that i would need to have ACDF immediately [because at that point the compression on my nervous system had been going on long enough i was looking at paralysis beyond what permanent nerve damage had already happened]--genuinely one of the scariest experiences of my life. went in for emergency spinal surgery the next day, stayed overnight, then discharged after getting cleared by the different physical therapy teams they had.

post-surgery and home now recovering. the difference is night and day; i'm already walking and "feeling" things better pre-surgery. i'm not sure if i'll completely recover tacticle sensation in my pinky and ring fingers, but i will definitely take having "normal'-feeling warm hands over pins/needles. being able to walk down stairs "normally" for the first time ever is insane to me. i'm in better shape than a lot of the patients they get for this surgery at my local hospital apparently so my prognosis looks good for getting back to normal in the next couple months--i will not be climbing probably until early may, which kills me, but it is what it is.