Being a good boulderer and rope climber

Is it possible?  This is something I’ve struggled with my entire climbing career.  I’d say my primary discipline is trad, but I enjoy bouldering and sport climbing as well (in that order).  The issue I always have is that I will focus on one and start to see some gains, but then when I try to switch back to the other it feels like I’ll have lost everything.  So say I decide to focus on bouldering for a while…when I get back to ropes, my endurance and head will suck, and when I focus on lead, I’ll lose my finger strength and power.  When I’ve tried to alternate, I found I wasn’t able to see as much improvement in any individual area.

For those of you who have goals in both bouldering and roped climbing - how do you manage both of them?  Is it better to approach each discipline seasonally, or do you prefer to keep both baskets going at once?

Hard roped climbing is hard bouldering. 

Both baskets at once! They are two sides to the same training.

Go with the flow. It also sounds like your head is holding you back from "gains", I know plenty of people that boulder most of the time that crush on lead when they actually do it. Personally i have spent a few winters on a small woody only to crush the roped projects on the first decent spring day. Make it more fun.

The only real difference is energy management. If you get strong and learn good technique then hard problems and crux sections go down quicker and you don't get tired as fast linking moves on routes or boulders. One of the hardest things to learn is alternating between relaxing and resting and trying as hard as you can. Few climbers can do both and fewer can switch modes quickly as needed.

In terms of training, I've done better with Steve Betchel's non-linear or block style training cycles. Periodized training has too short of a peak unless you're performing on a 1-2 week climbing trip.

I use bouldering to train for sport climbing, and it works really well.

Lead head struggles after you haven’t climbed on a rope for a while isn’t the fault of bouldering.

It’s hard to give more specific advice, when we don’t know much, in terms of details.

What do you mean by “focusing on bouldering for a while”, for example? How long is the “while”. What do you do when you “focus on bouldering”. Are you going on a bouldering-centered trip? Are you just bouldering in the gym? How much? What do you do? Is there any structure to it, or do you just go to the gym to climb new problems?

How hard do you boulder, vs how hard you climb on a rope? How often do you climb outside? How much hard-for-you sport, vs how much trad? How long is your “climbing career”? And on, and on, and on…

For those of you who have goals in both bouldering and roped climbing - how do you manage both of them?  Is it better to approach each discipline seasonally, or do you prefer to keep both baskets going at once?

I like both bouldering and sport climbing, and am good at neither, though I have seen fairly steady progress. I generally keep both going at once. I boulder indoors during the week (either gym sets or Kilter/Tension board) and I climb outdoors on the weekend. What I do outdoors (bouldering or sport) depends on what I'm more stoked on at the moment. Though it would seem logical to boulder outdoors more when it's too cold to climb on a rope. I can boulder in the shade in below freezing temps with snow on the ground.

I don't really see my outdoors bouldering as making me a better sport climber, I just have outdoor boulders that I want to tick, the same way that I have sport climbs I want to tick.

When I haven't lead for a while, the first few pitches are scary, and then generally my lead head improves. My endurance has always sucked so there isn't much to lose there. I don't really have any issue with picking up bouldering after a long hiatus. My finger strength generally stays the same (or improves if I haven't been bouldering hard since they get some rest), and it takes a session or two for me to get used to climbing hard on a board again.

I like board climbing for building power and training body tension. I like gym bouldering for improving my body awareness and climbing IQ. I'm not sure what gym lead climbing is good for, other than reminding me how much I suck at gym lead climbing - it doesn't seem to help my endurance or lead head much.

Lena chita wrote:

I use bouldering to train for sport climbing, and it works really well.

Lead head struggles after you haven’t climbed on a rope for a while isn’t the fault of bouldering.

It’s hard to give more specific advice, when we don’t know much, in terms of details.

What do you mean by “focusing on bouldering for a while”, for example? How long is the “while”. What do you do when you “focus on bouldering”. Are you going on a bouldering-centered trip? Are you just bouldering in the gym? How much? What do you do? Is there any structure to it, or do you just go to the gym to climb new problems?

How hard do you boulder, vs how hard you climb on a rope? How often do you climb outside? How much hard-for-you sport, vs how much trad? How long is your “climbing career”? And on, and on, and on…

Fair.  In the most extreme example I flashed a V5 and pumped out on a 10c on the same day in the same gym, lol.  It’s not the fault of bouldering so much as it’s the fault of not leading…usually if it’s been a while I have to get used to falling again.

“A while” kind of depends on life and what I have time for, but usually a few weeks/months.  Mainly comparing gym leading vs bouldering as outdoor is more sporadic/seasonal and indoor is easier to gauge, even if outdoor is ultimately the goal.  The outdoor climbing I most reliably have access to is techy off vert trad and Creek trips which doesn’t really translate to/from gym climbing at all (my trad lead head is completely separate from my sport/gym head and tends to be fairly steady).  I can also occasionally get to the Red.

So, focusing on my experience with indoor climbing (which isn’t the end goal but is easier to measure reliably), I usually find I lose my endurance after about two or three weeks of either not climbing or exclusively bouldering.  I’ll then get it back fairly quickly (maybe about the same amount of time), but then I find I’m kind of starting over.  Finger strength/power tends to stick around longer…I can usually reliably walk in and send V3/V4 any time, but when I’m focusing on it I can start hitting V5/V6.  So bouldering mostly and switching to lead a few weeks before a trip works decently, but I do find it hard to get in shape for long endurance routes while keeping my power and strength, if that makes sense.

Cody Ratterman wrote:

The only real difference is energy management. If you get strong and learn good technique then hard problems and crux sections go down quicker and you don't get tired as fast linking moves on routes or boulders. One of the hardest things to learn is alternating between relaxing and resting and trying as hard as you can. Few climbers can do both and fewer can switch modes quickly as needed.

In terms of training, I've done better with Steve Betchel's non-linear or block style training cycles. Periodized training has too short of a peak unless you're performing on a 1-2 week climbing trip.

Yeah I think a part of the problem is that when I come from bouldering, I’m in “try hard” mode and overgrip on sport routes, causing premature pump.  When I transition from sport to bouldering I climb too relaxed and have to remember how to try hard.  So it’s more than just energy management…also mentality.

I'd say, based on your tick list (which may or may not be indicative of your actual climbing), you're not really getting on routes that would lead to any sort of strength or technique gains. Nobody will see much progression if all they climb is <5.9 trad. If you're losing endurance from bouldering, don't solely boulder. If you're losing finger strength from sport and are too relaxed, you need to climb harder sport routes, period. If you can't climb harder things because your technique is in the toilet, focus on that. The gym is the safest place to try hard. Scare yourself. It's good for you.

EDIT: Just saw you're mainly talking about your gym life, so your tick list probably is not a fair metric.

Ted Pinson wrote:

Fair.  In the most extreme example I flashed a V5 and pumped out on a 10c on the same day in the same gym, lol.

I wouldn’t go by one boulder problem vs one route, bc so many things can be the reason for it.

So, focusing on my experience with indoor climbing (which isn’t the end goal but is easier to measure reliably), I usually find I lose my endurance after about two or three weeks of either not climbing or exclusively bouldering.  I’ll then get it back fairly quickly (maybe about the same amount of time), but then I find I’m kind of starting over.  Finger strength/power tends to stick around longer…I can usually reliably walk in and send V3/V4 any time, but when I’m focusing on it I can start hitting V5/V6.  So bouldering mostly and switching to lead a few weeks before a trip works decently, but I do find it hard to get in shape for long endurance routes while keeping my power and strength, if that makes sense.

2-3 weeks of bouldering isn’t enough to build strength/progress. It is just enough to get from the v3/4 that is your “base” back to the v5/6 that you are projecting. Not to improve further.

If you do a longer bouldering phase, starting with a few weeks of limit bouldering and some stamina (timed Boulder intervals, like on-the-minutes, Boulder pyramids), and then work in more power-endurance-type bouldering, like going sets or timed doubles/triples with limited rest, you should be able to gain power endurance, while keeping some of those strength and power gains.

There is always trade-off between being in best power form, and best endurance form, but yes, endurance gains happen quickly, so you could still benefit from the strength snd power gain you build over 8-10 weeks, and get enough endurance to see some sport climbing gains.

It also sounds like you need to get on harder routes. If you are going from bouldering v5 to climbing 5.10s, I don’t think there is anything on the 5.10s that would encourage your body to hold on to the strength gains you made while bouldering. Bouldering v5 => projecting 5.12. You can use the strength you build up while bouldering, and project something harder on ropes, build your endurance while linking up harder sections on the ropes, instead of going on 5.10s to build endurance.

If you haven’t done a lot of 11s/12-, Maybe you need to spend more time building up a route-based pyramid to get to the point where your bouldering strength would actually become a limiting factor… 

Lena chita wrote:

I wouldn’t go by one boulder problem vs one route, bc so many things can be the reason for it.

2-3 weeks of bouldering isn’t enough to build strength/progress. It is just enough to get from the v3/4 that is your “base” back to the v5/6 that you are projecting. Not to improve further.

If you do a longer bouldering phase, starting with a few weeks of limit bouldering and some stamina (timed Boulder intervals, like on-the-minutes, Boulder pyramids), and then work in more power-endurance-type bouldering, like going sets or timed doubles/triples with limited rest, you should be able to gain power endurance, while keeping some of those strength and power gains.

There is always trade-off between being in best power form, and best endurance form, but yes, endurance gains happen quickly, so you could still benefit from the strength snd power gain you build over 8-10 weeks, and get enough endurance to see some sport climbing gains.

It also sounds like you need to get on harder routes. If you are going from bouldering v5 to climbing 5.10s, I don’t think there is anything on the 5.10s that would encourage your body to hold on to the strength gains you made while bouldering. Bouldering v5 => projecting 5.12. You can use the strength you build up while bouldering, and project something harder on ropes, build your endurance while linking up harder sections on the ropes, instead of going on 5.10s to build endurance.

If you haven’t done a lot of 11s/12-, Maybe you need to spend more time building up a route-based pyramid to get to the point where your bouldering strength would actually become a limiting factor… 

No, again that was an extreme anecdote.  Normally 10s are fairly easy (indoors at least) and I’ll be leading 11+/12- indoors, 11s outdoors.  Since my focus has been on trad I haven’t pushed my sport grade really since I started climbing, but I’d like to once I can get out more (with kids it’s rough…day trips to Devil’s Lake are way easier than regular weekend Red trips).

Ted Pinson wrote:

No, again that was an extreme anecdote.  Normally 10s are fairly easy (indoors at least) and I’ll be leading 11+/12- indoors, 11s outdoors.  Since my focus has been on trad I haven’t pushed my sport grade really since I started climbing, but I’d like to once I can get out more (with kids it’s rough…day trips to Devil’s Lake are way easier than regular weekend Red trips).

After reading through this thread, I think you need to figure out what you want your year/next few years to look like and then decide if you are willing to commit to the work it will take to push your strength and power. It won't be easy and won't take 6-8 weeks. If you are happy climbing easy for you Trad and that's how you want to spend your days out there isn't anything wrong with that. Same goes for the gym. If you enjoy climbing all the new 10's and 11's and V3/4's then do that, but like Lena said that will only keep you at your current level. If you want to push your bouldering/sport grades (and I think you can be good at both) my recommendation would be to put a heavy focus this year on bouldering both indoor and out. I'd work towards building up a base of boulder problems outside while also projecting really hard for you boulders both indoor and out.

I also have kids so I totally understand how that factors in and I would argue that during the time that they are younger bouldering is a great discipline for a variety of reasons. Shorter sessions, more rest days between climbing days and they can tag along if needed. If you can make day trips to Devils Lake or Governor Dodge you have plenty of boulders to choose from. My guess is that if you were to head back to the Red after a year of bouldering your gonna notice gains in your sport climbing.

Ted Pinson wrote:

Fair.  In the most extreme example I flashed a V5 and pumped out on a 10c on the same day in the same gym, lol.  

Generally indicative of simply not climbing much at all  - no volume - no base - to the pyramid.  Flashing some one-off route then taking a shit isn’t indicative of anything other than a lack of fitness.  The grades you list indoor and out require 3+ days per week of 2-3 hours of consistent hard work in a gym - more to climb harder - less and you’ll be doing the V3/5.10 pedestrian weekend warrior middle of the pack circuit, which it sounds like you are on.  It’s a misperception to think 15 seconds of power off the couch and well rested translates into anything meaningful.

My .02 is that you should probably figure out what you want from climbing. If you want to improve as a sport climber, you need to go sport climbing. If you have limited time, go to the gym and skip those outdoor days at a vert cliff. Good footwork is not necessary at the red, there are footholds everywhere! Learn how to stay calm and relaxed, breathe well, and be efficient with movement.

Bouldering will teach you how to try hard, improve power, and do crux moves. The problem is that if you lack sport climbing skills, none of that is going to matter.

You could always just keep trad climbing, and push yourself doing that too. No need to send a new grade on sport before trad. If you can place gear well, go for it! It helps a ton with endurance too. 

Ted Pinson wrote:

No, again that was an extreme anecdote.  Normally 10s are fairly easy (indoors at least) and I’ll be leading 11+/12- indoors, 11s outdoors.  Since my focus has been on trad I haven’t pushed my sport grade really since I started climbing, but I’d like to once I can get out more (with kids it’s rough…day trips to Devil’s Lake are way easier than regular weekend Red trips).

Ok, got it. I actually said that one problem vs one route wasn’t indicative of much, but I didn’t have a “can usually walk into the gym and climb” grade to put on the routes, bc you had only mentioned that v3/4 was your bouldering baseline, but hadn’t mentioned your route baseline.

What I said earlier about doing a longer bouldering phase to build strength is still very much applicable.

Basically, right now you are “just climbing”. And just climbing got you to the point where you can walk into the gym after couple weeks if not climbing, and do a v3, just like you can walk into the gym and do 5.10 cleanly. If you spend several werks bouldering, you start sending v5/6. If you spend several weeks rope climbing you start sending 11+/12-, if I understood correctly. And you never spend more than couple weeks doing one, or the other.

Just climbing got you to this point, and is not getting you farther. That means you need to change things up, if you want to progress farther. 

Look up some training plans that are out there…