How to get better at bouldering outdoors

I started climbing earlier this year and am projecting v8's and can climbing v7's within usually one or two sessions at most local gyms. I tried climbing outdoors this week for the first time and have been struggling on just v2's and v3's. It seems that my problem is reading the route because I often don't know which is a good handhold and how to position my body to utilize that handhold. I also don't seem to trust my feet at all. The footholds are tiny and I'm not even sure what I can use as a foothold either because they're all so tiny. Is there any advice to how I can climb better outside or do I just need more mileage outdoors?

There are a few tips and tricks that may help the learning curve, but time/mileage/experience will be 80% of it. Just keep at it, have fun, and don't get discouraged. 

It will help the mindset to not even bother trying to compare your gym V grades to the outdoor V grades. They are so different. Just start at where you are (V2-V3 outdoors) and build from there. You'll figure it out and progress quickly.

Going from new climber to V8 indoors in less than a year is quite good. To what do you attribute that success? Presumably lots of time and deliberate practice? If you just apply those same tools to climbing outside, you'll do just fine.

Climbing with, watching, and imitating climbers who know what they are doing helps a lot also.

JCM wrote:

There are a few tips and tricks that may help the learning curve, but time/mileage/experience will be 80% of it. Just keep at it, have fun, and don't get discouraged. 

It will help the mindset to not even bother trying to compare your gym V grades to the outdoor V grades. They are so different. Just start at where you are (V2-V3 outdoors) and build from there. You'll figure it out and progress quickly.

Going from new climber to V8 indoors in less than a year is quite good. To what do you attribute that success? Presumably lots of time and deliberate practice? If you just apply those same tools to climbing outside, you'll do just fine.

Climbing with, watching, and imitating climbers who know what they are doing helps a lot also.

This is solid advice. I would add that I find I got more out of that mileage when I tried to climb on lots of different types of rock in different areas.

my advice is

1. Never underestimate the impact of conditions. You wouldn’t try to ski when there is no snow or surf when there’s no waves. Same thing with bouldering.
   
   
2. https://youtu.be/ObtZPW3fD-o clean shoes 

You definitely need more outdoor mileage and I'd argue roped climbing is much better for this purpose. When you're just learning how real rock works, IMO it's more beneficial to climb several hundred feet of 5.10 than throw yourself at the same 3 move V4 over and over again. I didn't really enjoy outdoor bouldering until I got on stuff in the V4-7 range. Below that I had more fun climbing 5.10-11 sport routes.

For me the biggest difference from gym climbing is identifying and choosing foot holds. In the gym the optimal feet are pointed out for you, outdoors you have many choices of varying quality. The other thing is finger beta. In the gym you see a hold and you grab it. Outdoors you may be using a weirdly shaped crimp that needs to be held in a precise way, or only a certain part of the hold is good, etc.

Depending on the area, V0-4 boulders can be sandbagged as hell, especially if they are "area classics". Holds may have broken or be super polished, the ground may have eroded 2 feet, and/or the grade may just be sandbagged. Many low grade boulders aren't documented at all unless they're highballs or sandbagged "classics."

On the flip side, some higher grade boulder problems are extremely soft, especially if they have been established recently. Basically you should try any boulders that look fun and inspiring, even if they're a higher grade. If you can climb gym V7, I'll bet there are straightforward outdoor V5s you would find easier than some sandbagged V3s. 

Prav C wrote:

You definitely need more outdoor mileage and I'd argue roped climbing is much better for this purpose. When you're just learning how real rock works, IMO it's more beneficial to climb several hundred feet of 5.10 than throw yourself at the same 3 move V4 over and over again. I didn't really enjoy outdoor bouldering until I got on stuff in the V4-7 range. Below that I had more fun climbing 5.10-11 sport routes.

For me the biggest difference from gym climbing is identifying and choosing foot holds. In the gym the optimal feet are pointed out for you, outdoors you have many choices of varying quality. The other thing is finger beta. In the gym you see a hold and you grab it. Outdoors you may be using a weirdly shaped crimp that needs to be held in a precise way, or only a certain part of the hold is good, etc.

Depending on the area, V0-4 boulders can be sandbagged as hell, especially if they are "area classics". Holds may have broken or be super polished, the ground may have eroded 2 feet, and/or the grade may just be sandbagged. Many low grade boulders aren't documented at all unless they're highballs or sandbagged "classics."

On the flip side, some higher grade boulder problems are extremely soft, especially if they have been established recently. Basically you should try any boulders that look fun and inspiring, even if they're a higher grade. If you can climb gym V7, I'll bet there are straightforward outdoor V5s you would find easier than some sandbagged V3s. 

I see... going sport climbing does seem like a good idea to get more mileage on the walls outside, but I don't have a rope and neither do my friends who boulder. Also, do you think the sport routes are comparable to bouldering routes? Are the footholds on lead routes as small as those on the bouldering wall?

JCM wrote:

There are a few tips and tricks that may help the learning curve, but time/mileage/experience will be 80% of it. Just keep at it, have fun, and don't get discouraged. 

It will help the mindset to not even bother trying to compare your gym V grades to the outdoor V grades. They are so different. Just start at where you are (V2-V3 outdoors) and build from there. You'll figure it out and progress quickly.

Going from new climber to V8 indoors in less than a year is quite good. To what do you attribute that success? Presumably lots of time and deliberate practice? If you just apply those same tools to climbing outside, you'll do just fine.

Climbing with, watching, and imitating climbers who know what they are doing helps a lot also.

Great, thanks! Do you think bouldering outdoors is inherently harder (in that a v8 outside is most often harder than a v8 indoors) or do you think it's just the style/environment of climbing outside I need to get accustomed to outside? Do you think the skills would transfer easily between the two?

Wrong Mass wrote:

Great, thanks! Do you think bouldering outdoors is inherently harder (in that a v8 outside is most often harder than a v8 indoors) or do you think it's just the style/environment of climbing outside I need to get accustomed to outside? Do you think the skills would transfer easily between the two?

Many gyms set soft, and many people (especially those who happen to be of roughly the same size as gym route setters) find gym grades much easier than outdoor.

It has never been my experience. I climb the same (or harder) grade outdoors than I do indoors. The indoor bouldering around here is often in a different style than the outdoor climbing I do. The two main differences is that I almost never find myself without a choice of footholds outside… and I’m yet to do a coordination dyno in the grades/styles that I climb outside.

Still, Once you get the mileage outside, yes, a large subset of skills will transfer relatively easily. People train indoors for climbing outdoors all the time. Just think of indoor climbing as one of many different rock types/climbing styles you get to see. Buttermilks is different from Hueco, and both are different from Horsepens. 

Too much focus on grades.  Did you enjoy being outdoors?  It sounds like you were challenged which is great, so who cares what the grades were.  I suggest you go to boulders with no information about routes.  Find your own problems.  Figure out what looks climbable and try it.  Find holds and sequences.  Try to traverse all the way around close to the ground.  Once you have exhausted your creativity, consult the guide/MP to see what others have done.  What did they see that you didn't?  Or, maybe you found a fun problem that is not in guide - how cool is that?  I spend hours at a boulder with tremendous variety, but because MP only has 2 routes on it.  People pass right through and tell me there's nothing there (perfect!).  Have fun working on things that have cool moves or are challenging for you.

Wrong Mass wrote:

I see... going sport climbing does seem like a good idea to get more mileage on the walls outside, but I don't have a rope and neither do my friends who boulder. Also, do you think the sport routes are comparable to bouldering routes? Are the footholds on lead routes as small as those on the bouldering wall?

Many sport routes have a crux that is like a boulder problem. Sure the foot holds can be as small or smaller. It's all rock. I started out gym bouldering too, tried outdoor bouldering and it felt impossible, then I exclusively climbed sport and trad for a year. When I came back to bouldering it felt so much easier, because I better understood how to move on real rock.

Your other question about outdoor being inherently more difficult than indoor for the grade: it's very area and gym dependent, but I would say outdoor is way harder from V0-4, a little harder from V5-6, and roughly the same difficulty (or even easier) from V7 onwards. But this is talking about pure physical difficulty assuming perfect knowledge of beta, and equal comfort moving on rock and plastic. The beta is usually what makes outdoors "feel" harder.

Prav C wrote:

You definitely need more outdoor mileage and I'd argue roped climbing is much better for this purpose. When you're just learning how real rock works, IMO it's more beneficial to climb several hundred feet of 5.10 than throw yourself at the same 3 move V4 over and over again. I didn't really enjoy outdoor bouldering until I got on stuff in the V4-7 range. Below that I had more fun climbing 5.10-11 sport routes.

Depending on the area, V0-4 boulders can be sandbagged as hell, especially if they are "area classics". Holds may have broken or be super polished, the ground may have eroded 2 feet, and/or the grade may just be sandbagged. Many low grade boulders aren't documented at all unless they're highballs or sandbagged "classics."

Prav - I disagree here and wonder if your experience is Colorado-specific. Is that where you've done most of your bouldering? The Front Range is notorious for have very good stand-alone hard problems, but doesn't have great areas for easy/moderate circuiting. Hence Front Range bouldering is often a matter of going to that one classic hard problem and projecting it (as you describe). This would not be a good approach for OP. As you say, he needs experience and mileage on rock. If he was on the Front Range, your advice to use sport climbing to gain mileage, is actually pretty sensible.

But not everywhere is like that. In Bishop, for example, there is an extraordinary amount of high-quality easy bouldering. You could spend many days running mileage on the V0-V2 circuit at the Happies, then at the Milks. These easy problems are very enjoyable, and are approachable for someone just learning to move on rock. Easy bouldering at a place like that is a fantastic way to get mileage and learn to climb - but it needs to be in a place that actually has that resource of easy bouldering.

If I recall correctly from an earlier thread, OP is in Red Rock for a month(?). Red Rock is more like Bishop than Colorado - in that its a major bouldering destination with a good, densely pack moderate circuit at Kraft. OP will have lots of opportunities to get mileage on those boulders. No need to mess with sport climbing if he doesn't want to.

That said, the advice to focus on mileage at first is good. If the V3-V4s feel too hard, OP would be better served by backing down the difficulty and spending a few days running around and having fun on the V0-V2 circuit. Rather than spending all day projecting a V4. The easy boulder circuit will provide the experience on rock he needs, and before long he'll be ready for the V3-V4 circuit, and so on.

Projecting is an important part of progression too, but that can come later. Mileage first.

Wrong Mass wrote:

Great, thanks! Do you think bouldering outdoors is inherently harder (in that a v8 outside is most often harder than a v8 indoors) or do you think it's just the style/environment of climbing outside I need to get accustomed to outside? Do you think the skills would transfer easily between the two?

Its just about what you're used to. If you spend a year climbing inside and never climb outside, you'll be used to plastic and rock will feel unfamiliar and difficult. The opposite is true though - if you spent a year climbing only on rock and never on plastic, when you went back to the gym that would feel unfamiliar and difficult.

I agree with Lena that gyms make V0-V4 really soft to give new climbers more ability to progress. Outdoor V2 is actually pretty hard! By around V7-V8 I think that gym and outdoor grades match up more closely (depending on area and gym), and at that point its just what you're used to.

The skills definitely transfer, though it takes some time to transition from one to the other. Even for a very experienced climber, after a winter in the gym it can take several days of climbing in the spring to tune back up to rock. As someone just learning to climb rock, a realistic goal for a one month trip is to just learn to climb on rock. Don't stress about pushing you max grade. 

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One other note: Do all the boulders. As a gym climber you'll probably feel most comfortable on the steep jug hauls, and will be able to advance your outdoor grade fastest if you focus on these. This is a trap; don't do it. I mean, definitely still climb the fun steep jug hauls. But also climb the slabs, the crimpy faces, the slopey aretes, and everything else. Climb all the boulders. Learn all the styles. This will give you the best base of experience.

If your name indicates that you climb in New England, don't despair. Gyms here do almost nothing to prepare you for the bouldering - nonexistent feet, scrunchy sit starts, slopey rails, awful weather, sandbagged as all hell. Glacial erratic granite is hard, full stop.

Lots of good advice here. 

Sounds like it would be helpful to work on your footwork. There are many drills you can do in the gym - simply type in "footwork drills climbing" and you'll find a plethora. Quiet feet is a personal favorite and something I try to do constantly in the gym. 

When at a boulder, study it. Learn the intricacies. Explore the realm of possibilities within a problem with an open mind. Give it your all, but don't take it too seriously. 

If you want to get into roped climbing, take a belay class with your friends (if they're into it) and become a damn good belayer. Enjoy a different discipline and seek to learn, as it will make you a better boulderer. Down the line, you can begin to learn lead climbing either through a gym or a trusted mentor if you're fortunate to find one.

Don't stress and enjoy the process. Do what makes you stoked! 

JCM wrote:

Prav - I disagree here and wonder if your experience is Colorado-specific. Is that where you've done most of your bouldering? The Front Range is notorious for have very good stand-alone hard problems, but doesn't have great areas for easy/moderate circuiting. Hence Front Range bouldering is often a matter of going to that one classic hard problem and projecting it (as you describe). This would not be a good approach for OP. As you say, he needs experience and mileage on rock. If he was on the Front Range, your advice to use sport climbing to gain mileage, is actually pretty sensible.

Yep, you described my experience with bouldering in Colorado to a T. Everything is so spread out. Good call on OP's location, makes sense if he's at an area with a high density of easy boulder problems.

I honestly consider them two different sports that use similar muscles and movement. It's like physics and chemistry both being sciences that use the scientific method/curiosity mindset, and then are otherwise completely different. 

I boulder better outdoors. I'm short with small hands and feet, so I'm able to find footholds and cracks and small crimps to get to the top of a lot of boulder problems outdoors that are just not provided indoors with only one hold option. 

That being said, it's a lot harder to read a route and flash something outdoors, because you have to be on the rock to feel where something may be able to come into play vs seeing all hold possibilities while you're on the ground. 

It's also mentally a bit harder - if you fall, you only have the small pad radius, so you're likely gripping harder (which exhausts you quicker) or giving up without trying for a tricky move in order to not risk a fall you'd otherwise go for in the gym with an entire floor of safety. Exposure is a real thing you deal with outdoors. 

I also struggle to be able to do many boulders in a day outdoors. Rock is just a lot harder on your hands, especially if it's sharp. 

As others said, treat it separately and feel challenged as you start your outdoor grade at v2/3. By continuing to climb indoors, you'll gain the strength and technique necessary to apply to outdoor climbs, and I suspect once you build up outdoor specific skills, you'll grow quickly to around the same level. 

To make it feel less disappointing/unsatisfying while doing so, try to aim for doing low grade classics that you'd want to be bagging anyway and feeling a sense of pride in those. You'll get there soon enough!

Do climbs that you find beautiful, inspiring, and fun. Challenge yourself. Enjoy the process.

I done some outdoor bouldering in bishop once but I’m still new on out door climbing does anyone want to partner up and travel to Yosemite National park, new jack city, pinnacles and shaver lake, Huntington lake, if any of you are interested contact me 

I done some outdoor bouldering in bishop once but I’m still new on out door climbing does anyone want to partner up and travel to Yosemite National park, new jack city, pinnacles and shaver lake, Huntington lake, if any of you are interested contact me 

All of the replies to your question are excellent and fit into what I think is the simplest formula to make the fastest gains in outdoor climbing coming from a gym background.   First, have an overall BIG goal to work toward.  Second, based on this goal you should be intentionally trying to improve a weakness within three main areas: (1) a tactical weakness, (2) a physical weakness, and (3) a technique weakness.   In your situation, you expressed a goal to be a better outdoor climber (having a more specific goal would be even better e.g. 5 V5s in the next year).  To accomplish this, you should obviously try to get outside as much as possible as others have said.  However, this is not enough to make the most rapid progress.  That's where focusing on the three areas comes in.   (1) Tactics:  It sounds like you are trying to onsite problems as you said you don't know what holds to grab.  You should suss out the route as much as possible- finding the best holds and working out beta before giving a full attempt.  Failing to onsite just tires you out and ingrains bad beta right from the start.  Work on the problem move to move from the outset and once you have all the moves dialed in, go for the send.  You can practice this tactic in the gym and it will translate outside.  (2) Physical:   You seem strong enough so you will probably make faster gains without a physical goal in this case.  If you identify a specific physical limitation for a goal boulder problem outside you could work on that. (3) Technique.  Do foot work drills intentionally in the gym.  That intentionality will translate outside.  

Importantly, don't underestimate the tactical side of climbing.  It is essential for outdoor success and largely requires a strong mentality rather than slower to gain physical and technical improvements.  There are many types of tactics including projecting tactics, choosing conditions, equipment choices such as pads and shoes, intentional problem selection, organizing your climbing day and partners etc. etc.  These and many other tactics all have huge effects on your progress.  However, I suggest picking 1 tactic at a time to work on with a great deal of intention until it becomes habit and then move to the next on your personalized list.  This will keep you from getting overwhelmed.  If you keep it simple but intentional you will make progress for many many years to come.