Which guide book is best for The Whites and NH?

My first trip to climb in the Whites is in a few weeks and staying in North Conway. I live in Michigan so I’d be either driving through Canada or likely flying into Boston or Portland if I ever take a trip to Maine. I definitely won’t rule out many future ice climbing trips to New England area but also Don’t think I’ll pick just one place to go every year or go back every few years unless it’s just where the best and/or highest concentration of fantastic ice climbs are found. So I am wondering which guide book I should get. Can anyone help? Is the ice all over NE worth going to or is there one spot I should just stick with if I’m going to make the time and investment in a trip. Also for anyone familiar with all the books, does the NE guide books over lap and have all the climbs from the NH guide book in the other books? Thanks in advance!

https://www.ime-usa.com/ime/product/new-hampshire-ice-a-select-guide/

https://www.ime-usa.com/ime/product/an-ice-climbers-guide-to-northern-new-england/

https://kdanielspublishing.com/cart/index.php/guide-books/an-ice-climbers-guide-to-southern-new-england-and-eastern-new-york.html

If you’re going on an ice climbing trip in the Northeast, go to Vermont. That’s the best place for ice.
I’ll let the actual Vermonters chime in for suggestions.  

The Wilcox guide is the best bang for your buck. The southern guide does not overlap with it, so worth picking up if you plan to climb in that area, though the ice is generally not as noteworthy. The select guide is exactly what it sounds like, and not worth it unless you just plan on only hitting the classics. Hope you have an excellent trip.

Oh noooo don't come to vermont! The ice is so so horrible. Smugglers Notch and Lake Willoughby have nothing to offer no don't come here...

Depends on what sort of ice you are looking for. Smugglers Notch has a ton of single and multipitch ice WI1-5 all within a mile, but the approaches to each can be tough and in reality you might only get a few pitches in per day. Stellar views and generally not too crowded. Lake Willoughby has all of the multipitch WI4/5 you could want with a short approach. Almost cragging. Both of those locations could probably occupy you for a solid week without repeating. NHs White Mountains has tons of more alpine feeling ice with many mile approaches into the mountains. All within 1-2 hours driving of each other, each one a big day trip in itself. There are just as many ice crags for single pitch and TR around the Whites as well. And don't forget about the Adirondacks too!

If spending a week, North Conway is fine. Climb everything that looks appealing in the Whites and sleep in your bed each night. Come to VT next time. Or vice versa. If it's all brand new to you I wouldn't drive all over the NE to hit 'that one line' you read about. There is pretty epic ice all over. Stay 'local' once you're there and enjoy the area.

Ry C wrote:

If you’re going on an ice climbing trip in the Northeast, go to Vermont. That’s the best place for ice.
I’ll let the actual Vermonters chime in for suggestions.  

Thanks for the heads up! Apparently I am not as aware of the Vermont ice fun as I should be. We already have the Airbnb paid for in North Conway so Vermont will most definitely have to be the next trip! Do you have any specific climbs/locations you would definitely recommend to hit upon our return? Coming from MI we have lots of WI3-5 a few 6s but no alpine and hardly any multi pitch at all. Plus the drive from SE MI to the UP ice is at least 6 hours so o would say our focus would prioritize multipitch, maybe some easy mixed and alpine routes hence our first trip to NE is focused on the Whites in NH. 

Cron wrote:

The Wilcox guide is the best bang for your buck. The southern guide does not overlap with it, so worth picking up if you plan to climb in that area, though the ice is generally not as noteworthy. The select guid is exactly what it sounds like, and not worth it unless you just plan on only hitting the classics. Hope you have an excellent trip.

Thanks so much! I’m not familiar with Wilcox. Not being as noteworthy do you feel the best ice or trips to get the most out of would be to the northern New England?

For now since we only have long weekends to climbs the trips would most like be focused on the classic alpine routes or multi pitches so the select guide doesn’t seems sort of an ok choice but yea pretty limiting outside of the NH area. But i know little about NE ice except for the alpine routes in the whites daks and presidentials. So any advice suggestions or recommendations is more than welcome :)

The "Wilcox" guide is the Northern New England book. Rick Wilcox is the owner of IME store in North Conway as well as their associated guide service, responsible for a number of historic winter ascents in the region, and the long time 'go-to person' for the area.

For classic, 'alpine' multi-pitch ice, the gullies in Huntington Ravine on Mt. Washington are the place to head for. Nothing hard by modern standards (the routes were first done in the 1920-40s), but still wonderful outings in a great location. Just be careful of the weather and avalanche conditions, Mt. Washington is notorious for 'humbling' (at best) those who underestimate it, especially those who dismiss it because of its low altitude and the relatively modest length of the routes. Crawford Notch, on the SW side of Mount Washington has several areas with good ice climbs, with Frankenstein Cliff being the main attraction with numerous 1 and 2 pitch routes across a range of difficulties and a short and easy approach.

A step up in difficulty is the Black Dike on Cannon Mountain in Franconia Notch. The route itself isn't that long but the approach and descent add to the commitment factor. There are a number of significantly harder ice and mixed climbs on the cliff--the tallest in the Northeast, but all are serious propositions.

This should be enough to get you started. The Southern NE book includes lots of areas, but mostly single pitch and most with much more uncertain conditions than in the White Mountains themselves. Vermont, the Adirondacks and Catskills in NY, and Katahdin in Maine are all worth trips of their own.

Al Rubin, as usual, speaks great truths simply and accurately!  His Huntington Ravine advice should be especially taken to heart. A beautiful day with stable snow can make a NEI 3- like Odell’s a stroll in the park, while a day later conditions can be so bad that they can double for the upper 1000 ft of Mt Everest in a storm ( as they did for the IMAX movie “ Everest” , if you look really closely you can see the krumholtz ( bush) in the frame ! ) 

upon arrival in N. Conway, your first stop should be to IME, International Mtn Equipment. Pick up the Wilcox guide ( or order it by phone ahead of time)  The new select guide is ok too and might have a route or two not in the Wilcox guide ( which is a reprint, since the updated guide has been “ delayed” ) There is also a REI in town, and an EMS ( Eastern Mtn Sports). 

Anybody  behind the desk is a climber and can help with beta.  The IME Climbing School is upstairs run by Brad White. I don’t know your experience level, or how you feel about climbing with a guide, but you can hire a guide for the day and sometimes when in a new area that’s the best way to get a good overview. EMS also has a guide service, and there are several others in the area. All are equally good. ( Google North Conway Guide Services ) 

Of course, MtnPrject has lots of beta on the standard routes. NH ice leads the NH listings. It lists all ice climbing Area by Area. ( Many states “ squeeze “ the ice routes into the rock climbs) 

A bit of Beta on getting here. I’m familiar with the geography, ( of getting around Lake Erie) but have to ask “ With the ever changing Covid regulations, is traveling THROUGH Canada worth the hassle/ risk? “ PLUS, going thru USA you get to go through the Adirondack’s ( or close by on Rt90) another great ice area! 

Hopefully, however,  your trip is scheduled for at least a few weeks from now.  This “ winter” had been rather warm so far and I’d say it’s going to be one of the worst for ice this Christmas-New Years in many years.

PM me if you need more N Conway specifics

can't get any worse than last year...  Christmas day 2021... 

Within a couple hours of N Conway you’ll have a treasure trove of ice. Even Lake W in VT is not too much further than two hours. While the season has seen ups and downs if you’re willing to drive and maybe endure a longer approach you’ll be fine. It’s getting cold and hopefully stays that way.

If you decide to climb in Huntington Ravine know where the “escape hatch” is - on a brutal cold and windy day it can save you’re life and at the least make the descent more tolerable. Also use MWOBS for weather and MWAC for avy conditions  

Despite the start to the season I’ve been out 7 or 8 days and they’ve all been pretty damn good. 

Robert Hall wrote:

Al Rubin, as usual, speaks great truths simply and accurately!  His Huntington Ravine advice should be especially taken to heart. A beautiful day with stable snow can make a NEI 3- like Odell’s a stroll in the park, while a day later conditions can be so bad that they can double for the upper 1000 ft of Mt Everest in a storm ( as they did for the IMAX movie “ Everest” , if you look really closely you can see the krumholtz ( bush) in the frame ! ) 

https://blog.nhstateparks.org/mt-washington-state-park-monday-july-9th-2012/

Probably one of the most famous uses of Mt Washington State Park to mimic another mountain in film was by David Breashers who back in 1998 made a IMAX film documentary of the May 8th 1996 Everest tragedy where 8 climbers lost their lives in a great storm near the summit. In making his movie Breashers needed footage of climbers walking in high winds in near white-out winter conditions. Just an average winter day for the summit of Mt Washington! Armed with the knowledge that a small part of Mt Washington was used in the making of this IMAX movie it’s fun to try and pick out the scenes where Breashears dubbed in Mt Washington footage for Mt Everest.  On this link to scenes from the IMAX 1998 EVEREST part 3 of 5,  see if you can find the Mt Washington made scenes. I’ll give you a hint, fast forward to 2min 30sec and start searching from there. The rime ice on the rocks is a dead give away!

Unfortunately the link to video no longer work. 

I want to follow up my earlier post with a few points. While, given your stated preference for multi-pitch, Huntington Ravine should be high on your list, beyond the concerns about weather and avvy conditions I referred to in my previous post, there are a few other things that you need to take in consideration concerning climbing there. Since you are renting an Airbandb in North Conway, I presume that you intend on spending your nights in those comfortable confines instead of using the much more 'rustic' accommodations of the Harvard Cabin, which is the traditional 'base' for climbing in the Ravine (for which you need to bring good cold weather camping gear). Day trips from town to climb in the Ravine are very possible and quite common, but make it a long day out. I don't know your overall physical fitness, but in good conditions, at least, the climbs themselves may not be the toughest part of the day. It is a several mile hike to get from the parking at Pinkham Notch into the base of the Ravine (the trail is usually well-traveled, but depending upon snow conditions,once in the Bowl strenuous post-holing might be required to reach the base of the climb). Finding and then getting down the best descent can be quite challenging, and potentially dangerous in bad conditions, and then there is the walk back to the car. Also, given your lack of familiarity with the area and, from what you wrote, with multi-pitch ice and snow climbing, this could also add on significant amounts of time. Taking these factors into account, I would advise climbing one of the easier gullies on your first visit. Central or Yale are the easiest, but maybe a bit 'too easy' (depending on conditions both can be largely snow climbs with only short sections of ice). I'd suggest O'Dells, possibly via the Right-hand variant for a bit more difficulty, or North, a personal favorite as it is a little more varied and mixed, and has its own (bushwacking) descent along the side. If that climb goes well and, if you have the time and energy for a return trip there and conditions allow, Pinnacle, which is the hardest (though still not too hard) of the gullies and with the best ambiance, would be the best 'target' for a second visit.

Before venturing into the Ravine, I'd advise a day or 2 climbing in Crawford Notch to familiarize yourself with the local ice conditions--as well as having many fine climbs to choose between, most with short and easy approaches. Willey's Slide and Cinema Gully on Mt. Willard are good easier choices (though thin ice on Cinema, especially the first pitch, can make it quite serious). Frankenstein Cliff is the home to many classics from easy to extreme. Very good moderates there include Standard, Chia, and Pegasus. There are also longer gully routes on Mt. Webster, though, in most conditions, these are primarily snow climbs and can require much effort to approach and descend.

Hope this helps, have a great trip. I hope the conditions allow you to get a lot done.

Robert Hall wrote:

Al Rubin, as usual, speaks great truths simply and accurately!  His Huntington Ravine advice should be especially taken to heart. A beautiful day with stable snow can make a NEI 3- like Odell’s a stroll in the park, while a day later conditions can be so bad that they can double for the upper 1000 ft of Mt Everest in a storm ( as they did for the IMAX movie “ Everest” , if you look really closely you can see the krumholtz ( bush) in the frame ! ) 

upon arrival in N. Conway, your first stop should be to IME, International Mtn Equipment. Pick up the Wilcox guide ( or order it by phone ahead of time)  The new select guide is ok too and might have a route or two not in the Wilcox guide ( which is a reprint, since the updated guide has been “ delayed” ) There is also a REI in town, and an EMS ( Eastern Mtn Sports). 

Anybody  behind the desk is a climber and can help with beta.  The IME Climbing School is upstairs run by Brad White. I don’t know your experience level, or how you feel about climbing with a guide, but you can hire a guide for the day and sometimes when in a new area that’s the best way to get a good overview. EMS also has a guide service, and there are several others in the area. All are equally good. ( Google North Conway Guide Services ) 

Of course, MtnPrject has lots of beta on the standard routes. NH ice leads the NH listings. It lists all ice climbing Area by Area. ( Many states “ squeeze “ the ice routes into the rock climbs) 

A bit of Beta on getting here. I’m familiar with the geography, ( of getting around Lake Erie) but have to ask “ With the ever changing Covid regulations, is traveling THROUGH Canada worth the hassle/ risk? “ PLUS, going thru USA you get to go through the Adirondack’s ( or close by on Rt90) another great ice area! 

Hopefully, however,  your trip is scheduled for at least a few weeks from now.  This “ winter” had been rather warm so far and I’d say it’s going to be one of the worst for ice this Christmas-New Years in many years.

PM me if you need more N Conway specifics

Thanks for all the detail Robert! This is a huge help. We will be getting into Boston around 8pm and driving to North Conway at night so I’ll need to order the book before we’re there as we plan to have early days for climbing and will miss the open hours for IME.

The idea I think was to hit something like pinnacle gully and/or Odell’s  then depending on ice, weather and avy conditions see what ticker and or Huntington ravine is like. We’re both on the end of being pretty fit and wouldn’t be shy of a tough approach however I feel that if the approach deters that much away from actual climbing then we may opt for an easier approach if we can find them.

This trip we’re flying into BOS and driving up via rental but I meant driving through Canada in the future when COVID isn’t as much of a concern to get to VT or NH quicker since it’s a long hike from MI. 

Huntington  ravine  ctc is  exceedingly  common.  Only  stay  at  Harvard  cabin  if you  want the  experience.  Much  easier to  hike in without  over  night gear.   If you are post holing on the  fan YGD. 

Alan Rubin wrote:

I want to follow up my earlier post with a few points. While, given your stated preference for multi-pitch, Huntington Ravine should be high on your list, beyond the concerns about weather and avvy conditions I referred to in my previous post, there are a few other things that you need to take in consideration concerning climbing there. Since you are renting an Airbandb in North Conway, I presume that you intend on spending your nights in those comfortable confines instead of using the much more 'rustic' accommodations of the Harvard Cabin, which is the traditional 'base' for climbing in the Ravine (for which you need to bring good cold weather camping gear). Day trips from town to climb in the Ravine are very possible and quite common, but make it a long day out. I don't know your overall physical fitness, but in good conditions, at least, the climbs themselves may not be the toughest part of the day. It is a several mile hike to get from the parking at Pinkham Notch into the base of the Ravine (the trail is usually well-traveled, but depending upon snow conditions,once in the Bowl strenuous post-holing might be required to reach the base of the climb). Finding and then getting down the best descent can be quite challenging, and potentially dangerous in bad conditions, and then there is the walk back to the car. Also, given your lack of familiarity with the area and, from what you wrote, with multi-pitch ice and snow climbing, this could also add on significant amounts of time. Taking these factors into account, I would advise climbing one of the easier gullies on your first visit. Central or Yale are the easiest, but maybe a bit 'too easy' (depending on conditions both can be largely snow climbs with only short sections of ice). I'd suggest O'Dells, possibly via the Right-hand variant for a bit more difficulty, or North, a personal favorite as it is a little more varied and mixed, and has its own (bushwacking) descent along the side. If that climb goes well and, if you have the time and energy for a return trip there and conditions allow, Pinnacle, which is the hardest (though still not too hard) of the gullies and with the best ambiance, would be the best 'target' for a second visit.

Before venturing into the Ravine, I'd advise a day or 2 climbing in Crawford Notch to familiarize yourself with the local ice conditions--as well as having many fine climbs to choose between, most with short and easy approaches. Willey's Slide and Cinema Gully on Mt. Willard are good easier choices (though thin ice on Cinema, especially the first pitch, can make it quite serious). Frankenstein Cliff is the home to many classics from easy to extreme. Very good moderates there include Standard, Chia, and Pegasus. There are also longer gully routes on Mt. Webster, though, in most conditions, these are primarily snow climbs and can require much effort to approach and descend.

Hope this helps, have a great trip. I hope the conditions allow you to get a lot done.

Alan, this helps a tremendous amount so thank you so much for your help and insight. This is exactly why I need the book because I live all the detail but it’s hard to know about the logistics of these climbs compared to where we are staying.

I much preferred the camping option closer to the climbing areas but my friend wanted a nice cozy warm bed unfortunately and didn’t want to wake up to frozen boots in the morning. So maybe if he sees this thread there’s a chance we could opt for the camp option or at least in the future I will definitely be using the cabin or just renting it with my bibler.

I think your advice on spending the first day at least climbing in Crawford notch/Frankenstein cliff makes a lot of sense before hitting a ravine. Hopefully conditions will be good enough to end the trip on an awesome note with Huntington  ravine and leaving with no epics.

Our plan was to wake up and try for Odell’s or pinnacle gully 1/15 then maybe something like black dike or fafnir 1/16 and some ice cragging the last day since we leave from Boston at 7pm on 1/17. From the sounds of it, this may be biting off more than we can chew but that was the idea. If you have any advice on those or specifics you’d recommend similar to that but maybe that matches a NH first timers level we’d definitely alter the plan a bit. But again a lot of the underwriting of the itinerary goes into getting one of the guide books and researching what we had in mind. 

Mark NH wrote:

Within a couple hours of N Conway you’ll have a treasure trove of ice. Even Lake W in VT is not too much further than two hours. While the season has seen ups and downs if you’re willing to drive and maybe endure a longer approach you’ll be fine. It’s getting cold and hopefully stays that way.

If you decide to climb in Huntington Ravine know where the “escape hatch” is - on a brutal cold and windy day it can save you’re life and at the least make the descent more tolerable. Also use MWOBS for weather and MWAC for avy conditions  

Despite the start to the season I’ve been out 7 or 8 days and they’ve all been pretty damn good. 

Thanks mark, is the escape hatch something I can google to find out or would this for sure be in on of the guide books I listed? 

Ray-   https://www.mountainproject.com/area/105890655/huntington-ravine-winter-ice  

Escape Hatch Marked  Looks easy to find, but definately not if conditions are bad.  

I would vote for the new Select guide. It's modern, has good maps, photos, topos and there are plenty of routes in there to keep you busy for a while. 

I think you'd probably be fine just using Mountain Project too. 

If you have accommodations in N.Conway I'd climb in that area. Lots of classic ice in the Whites. 

If you want to lay eyes on the most spectacular concentration of steep multi pitch ice you're likely to ever see, Lake Willoughby is worth a little extra drive time. But really there's plenty of great and varied climbing in NH from steep cragging to more alpine stuff. 

I would strongly recommend avoiding the escape hatch unless the snowpack grows exponentially. It’s full of krumholtz and it’s way faster to descend the Lion Head until later in the season. 

Ray, everything Al said is true. My 2 cents to add to it.  May want to start with something in Crawford Notch the first day. Frankenstein has plenty to choose from, or for alpine-ish multi pitch climbs go to Willard.  Driving to Crawford is almost the same short drive time as to AMC Pinkham (Mt Washington access point) from N Conway but the walk in is minimal vs Huntington. 

But let the MWOBS weather dictate what day you do Huntington, as you don't want to be up there when it's 80mph winds. 

You can also use NEclimbs website which is updated each Thurs for updated ice status and pics. 

And your last day you can easily spend the day climbing in Crawford and then scoot down to Boston for your flight. 

All great advice. Here’s my 2 cents from N Conway. If I had a few days I’d start at Frankenstein and tag the classics.

Then Huntington ravine to get the alpine experience.

Day 3 on Willard.

Edit, I also have the Lewis & Wilcox guide book.