Belaying with a Jumar?!

I saw something that looked a bit odd the other day in the gym.  A top rope belayer had the rope going through a gri gri and to their brake hand (right hand).  But their left hand…lt was on a jumar on the live end of the rope.  What… what was going on here?

Too weak to take on a double wrapped top anchor?

Andy Forquer wrote:

I saw something that looked a bit odd the other day in the gym.  A top rope belayer had the rope going through a gri gri and to their brake hand (right hand).  But their left hand…lt was on a jumar on the live end of the rope.  What… what was going on here?

Using the jumar to help pull slack, I'd guess? It is sometimes tough, when the rope has a friction wrap around the capstan. 

Messing with the gym crew would also be a top guess.

If they are tied in to the other end, the climber end? And have a foot loop off the jumar? That's a self belay on a single rope. Used to do that as a routesetter.

Best, H.

PWZ wrote:

Too weak to take on a double wrapped top anchor?

This. They were making the pull down easier with a handle. 

Danny Herrera wrote:

probably this team

What's going on here? 

A V wrote:

• Gumbo decides to rappel using their first timer friend as counterweight instead of pre-rigging a rappel for them. 
• Extends his rappel.
• Starts rappelling but notices that his counterweight isn't being lowered due to the unaccounted for friction - he's just lowering himself when he rappels. 
• Wants first timer friend to descend with him in tandem, side by side. 
• The solution? Clips into bolts on the way down with a quick draw, so that they can lower partner when bolt is weighted so that they stay near each other. 
• Lowers self, clips into bolt, lowers partner, unclips from bolt, lowers self, clips into bolt, lowers partner, etc, etc until ground is achieved.

Thats my best guess

Also - to the other questions in this thread: yeah dawg top rope belaying with a jumar is the shit. You can even make a 2:1 mechanical advantage if you want maximum lazy points

why not just tether to his buddy?

That actually sounds like a reasonable way to lower both yourself and your buddy if you are okay with lowering of the fixed gear (disclaimer: have never tried something like this before, just talking theory. Please correct me if I'm being stupid).

Edit: just needs to add a third hand backup to his belay device.

Pretty common to use the jumar handle trick when giving a project belay on a steep route. Makes jugging and boinking after falls much more comfortable. Of course, you take the jumar off when the leader starts climbing.

Andy Forquer wrote:

I saw something that looked a bit odd the other day in the gym.  A top rope belayer had the rope going through a gri gri and to their brake hand (right hand).  But their left hand…lt was on a jumar on the live end of the rope.  What… what was going on here?

In a word:  Fuckery.  The longer you climb and the more people get into climbing, expect to see this more.  I have seen things I never thought I would, and my guess is that it's due to the phenomenon of a mass migration of people into "climbing".  

I've seen:

• People trying to rappel for their first time, go off belay, use a clove hitch to secure themselves to the anchor, then try to figure out how to set up a backup and rappel both strands while undoing the clove hitch- with no backup.
• This one's a personal fave:  Mom brings first time kid in, and just holds the rope, no harness, no belay device, just holds the rope as the kid climbs, thinking this will do something in the event of a fall.
• I could go on, but you get the idea.

You haven't seen the last of weird shit that doesn't make sense, and it will only become more common.  Polish your intervention skills unless you'd like to experience trauma from watching someone get mangled.  

Edit:  I understand what was going on now thanks to clarification to others, but you're likely going to still see weird stuff with no good purpose for it, so be vigilant.

As has been mentioned, the jumper is to pull on the TR strand going up to the anchor to pull in slack. I first saw this method years ago by an acquaintance who was a 5.14 climber. He told me that he mostly used belay gloves to protect his tips from splitters, and that the jumar helped spare his left hand from gripping the rope and wasting valuable energy pulling on rope during a belay. Hard To argue with someone that climbed that much and that hard. I do this occasionally with TR’s that have more rope drag, and I’ve used a jumar to pull a rope from rap anchors that had excessive drag too.

Jake Jones wrote:

In a word:  Fuckery.  The longer you climb and the more people get into climbing, expect to see this more.  I have seen things I never thought I would, and my guess is that it's due to the phenomenon of a mass migration of people into "climbing".  

I've seen:

• People trying to rappel for their first time, go off belay, use a clove hitch to secure themselves to the anchor, then try to figure out how to set up a backup and rappel both strands while undoing the clove hitch- with no backup.
• This one's a personal fave:  Mom brings first time kid in, and just holds the rope, no harness, no belay device, just holds the rope as the kid climbs, thinking this will do something in the event of a fall.
• I could go on, but you get the idea.

You haven't seen the last of weird shit that doesn't make sense, and it will only become more common.  Polish your intervention skills unless you'd like to experience trauma from watching someone get mangled.  

Edit:  I understand what was going on now thanks to clarification to others, but you're likely going to still see weird stuff with no good purpose for it, so be vigilant.

Jake, re kids? It depends on how little the kid is, and how much friction is in the system. I've belayed truly tiny kids, and that belay device is just there to satisfy gym requirements. The reality is you have to almost have a tagline on them, to pull them back down, if there's a friction wrap up top.

And, full grown adults can belay without a harness or belay device. Not many know how, but I'd take a body belay, happily, from my friends who have experience with it 

Best, H 

Its pretty common.  Just used to make pulling slack easier.   The guys who I know who do it don't connect the ascender to anything so there is no risk of shock loading or damaging the sheath.  The only down side Have seen is if you aren't paying attention and you start lowering and forget to take the ascender off the rope.  Usually happens after one too many bowls.

Kevin Mokracek wrote:

Its pretty common.  Just used to make pulling slack easier.   The guys who I know who do it don't connect the ascender to anything so there is no risk of shock loading or damaging the sheath.  The only down side Have seen is if you aren't paying attention and you start lowering and forget to take the ascender off the rope.  Usually happens after one too many bowls.

And are using the setup to self belay as a beginning routesetter, tied in to the climbers end? Stripping holds off the overhanging wall? And then start to lower down a bit? That ascender goes out of reach? 

Uhhhh......

Oops.

Hmmmm ...

 Fortunately, I had a bit of odds and ends on my harness, so I was able to slap a prussik on, and self rescue. Otherwise, I would have had the embarrassment of trying to roust someone to help, lol!

But I do have the distinction of that self rescue... in a gym. A proud moment, eh????

Best, Helen

EDIT TO ADD, hey Kevin? For people who use this to pull slack, does it slow up their belay enough that the climber needs to slow down, or at least be careful not to outclimb them? I'm thinking of the extra "step" of shoving the jumar uprope, as opposed to just moving that hand up, if you are doing a regular PBUS belay.

today I went outside and saw someone using a rope grab to grab a rope

Old lady H wrote:

EDIT TO ADD, hey Kevin? For people who use this to pull slack, does it slow up their belay enough that the climber needs to slow down, or at least be careful not to outclimb them? I'm thinking of the extra "step" of shoving the jumar uprope, as opposed to just moving that hand up, if you are doing a regular PBUS belay.

Nope, its probably faster.  Its also way easier on your hands or hand, much easier on the hand to grip a handle than the rope.  I have only used it a few times and found it pretty nice, the only reason I don't use it more often is I don't top rope too often and I don't want one more piece of gear to remember but those who use it swear by it.

what's PBUS??

Do this all the time for TR belays. It allows you to rest more effectively in between redpoint burns, especially if there's heavy drag. Safe and effective. Try it out. 

Kevin Mokracek wrote:

what's PBUS??

PBUS stands for Pull, Brake, Under, Slide. It’s the modern standard practice of belay technique for ATC style devices and most other common devices.

It’s the update from the older Slip, Slap, Slide that is the technique correctly used on Munter Hitches and hip belays.

A V wrote:

• Gumbo decides to rappel using their first timer friend as counterweight instead of pre-rigging a rappel for them. 
• Extends his rappel.
• Starts rappelling but notices that his counterweight isn't being lowered due to the unaccounted for friction - he's just lowering himself when he rappels. 
• Wants first timer friend to descend with him in tandem, side by side. 
• The solution? Clips into bolts on the way down with a quick draw, so that they can lower partner when bolt is weighted so that they stay near each other. 
• Lowers self, clips into bolt, lowers partner, unclips from bolt, lowers self, clips into bolt, lowers partner, etc, etc until ground is achieved.

Thats my best guess

Considering that niether has any gear on their harnesses (including climbing shoes) besides the draw on the bolt and the alpine draw connecting the device extension to his belay loop, I'd say this is either getting ready (or finished) for a staged climbing shit for someone's tinder profile. Or maybe they're "sport rappelling" noobs and doing what you listed above.