Scarpa Rebel Ice for ice climbs?

Any of you dry-toolers try your Scarpa Rebel Ice boots on pure ice climbs?  I'm looking for feedback on how well they perform, especially on moderate (wi4-5) ice.  I have them in mind for some projects where weight is of particular importance.  At 400 grams per boot vs 700+ grams for the lightest 'normal' ice boots, plus the much lighter crampons, the weight savings are inpressive.  The limited reviews I have found focus on drytooling performance. 

I'm particularly interested in hearing from the Europe-based climbers on here... are folks in the alps racing up waterfall routes with the Rebel Ice (or other similar comp boots) or are they sticking with proper mountain boots and hybrid steel/alu crampons?  

1.  They really hurt my toes when kicking(that being said depending on what you want to do, you may not be kicking) 

2.  They are cold

3. Mine are sized for just a sock, and they hurt. After a route I can’t wait to get them off my feet some days.

4. Curious, what is your goal/route(s) you want to use them for? 

mbb wrote:

Any of you dry-toolers try your Scarpa Rebel Ice boots on pure ice climbs?  I'm looking for feedback on how well they perform, especially on moderate (wi4-5) ice.  I have them in mind for some projects where weight is of particular importance.  At 400 grams per boot vs 700+ grams for the lightest 'normal' ice boots, plus the much lighter crampons, the weight savings are inpressive.  The limited reviews I have found focus on drytooling performance. 

I'm particularly interested in hearing from the Europe-based climbers on here... are folks in the alps racing up waterfall routes with the Rebel Ice (or other similar comp boots) or are they sticking with proper mountain boots and hybrid steel/alu crampons?  

I mean, occasionally you’ll see the odd photo of someone like Jeff Mercier using them, but that would be more for some serious acrobatic style climbing, not a WI4-WI5. My guess is something is amiss with your climbing style or technique if you need a fruit boot for WI4-WI5. 

sounds like its a weight saving issue.  go with aluminum strap Ons and approach shoes.. 

mbb wrote:

Any of you dry-toolers try your Scarpa Rebel Ice boots on pure ice climbs?  I'm looking for feedback on how well they perform, especially on moderate (wi4-5) ice.  I have them in mind for some projects where weight is of particular importance.  At 400 grams per boot vs 700+ grams for the lightest 'normal' ice boots, plus the much lighter crampons, the weight savings are inpressive.  The limited reviews I have found focus on drytooling performance. 

I'm particularly interested in hearing from the Europe-based climbers on here... are folks in the alps racing up waterfall routes with the Rebel Ice (or other similar comp boots) or are they sticking with proper mountain boots and hybrid steel/alu crampons?  

As already been said. They are cold, not comfortable, and hurt to kick in. The real thing that holds then back on ice for me is that the secondary points on bolt on crampons are usually very short and stubby for drytooling, and offer little to no stability on ice, I often find myself climbing ice topouts much more cautiously in fruit boots. Another thing to consider is the lack of support, on anything less than vertical your calves will feel the burn of a thousand suns, the cuff on these boots offers almost no actual support. I'm sure that if you're pushing the limits of speed winter climbing then the weight savings are worth the tradeoff, but in 99.9% of situations it would just suck. 

Also very curious to here about these goals for this setup.

depending on conditions a light weight pair of summer mountaineering boots with aluminum crampons might be the ticket . don't laugh. the aluminum rigs climb water ice just  fine if they are new and its not super cold. 20f and up.  other wise I would suggest the light weight summer mountainering boots with the lightest pair of steel crampons you can get your hands on. Petzl crampons come with the option of basket or toe bail these days so perhaps they have something that would work. Put their basket binding on darts? 

Nick Goldsmith wrote:

depending on conditions a light weight pair of summer mountaineering boots with aluminum crampons might be the ticket . don't laugh. the aluminum rigs climb water ice just  fine if they are new and its not super cold. 20f and up.  other wise I would suggest the light weight summer mountainering boots with the lightest pair of steel crampons you can get your hands on. Petzl crampons come with the option of basket or toe bail these days so perhaps they have something that would work. Put their basket binding on darts? 

lightweight summer boots, ie not the stiffest boots usually sounds like it wouldn’t feel too good on the legs

Ueli during his 2015 Eiger Speed record. He bolted regular Dart front and heel sections to the Rebel Ice.

Dela cruce. HTFU. 

 Isa following 20 Below Zero Gully 4+ in alpina skate ski boots and BD aluminum  summer mountaineering crampons. It sounds like the op is looking to do something bad assed where  weight really matters.  Just throwing out options but it seems like the photo of Uli settles it unless the OP  also needs to hike a bunch or run a bunch  in the same shoes in which case  my suggestion of lightweight summer mountaineering boot with basket crampon might be an option?

Gents, your insights are very much appreciated.  The difficulty kicking would be an issue, as would the short secondary points.  Gives me much food for thought.  I didn't realize Steck used those boots on the Eiger, sick.  Bolting on standard dart crampon front and rear pieces seems like a really good idea.  

Nick, I agree summer mountaineering boots are a good option.  I don't think I have pushed them as far as you have but I've tested out a few setups that seemed to work ok up to about grade 3 ice but always with steel front points.  Might have to try some of your ideas out as well.  Summer boots sure are a lot easier to run in compared to fully rigid boots.

Regarding the reason?  Just got some speed climbing type ideas.  On ice I don't think weight really matters that much, even moving very quickly it is not the aerobic system that is the limiter.  And I think I have more or less maxed out my 'safe' climbing speed.  But if a route involves sections of snow I find the weight of normal boots and crampons make it impossible to run (at least for me).  So a really light setup that still climbs well enough could be interesting.

I will follow up later this season if I work something out.  Thanks again, I really appreciate the thoughtful replies.

Good luck dude. And would love to hear how your feet hold up to 4/5 climbing in those boots. 

mbb wrote:

Gents, your insights are very much appreciated.  The difficulty kicking would be an issue, as would the short secondary points.  Gives me much food for thought.  I didn't realize Steck used those boots on the Eiger, sick.  Bolting on standard dart crampon front and rear pieces seems like a really good idea.  

Nick, I agree summer mountaineering boots are a good option.  I don't think I have pushed them as far as you have but I've tested out a few setups that seemed to work ok up to about grade 3 ice but always with steel front points.  Might have to try some of your ideas out as well.  Summer boots sure are a lot easier to run in compared to fully rigid boots.

Regarding the reason?  Just got some speed climbing type ideas.  On ice I don't think weight really matters that much, even moving very quickly it is not the aerobic system that is the limiter.  And I think I have more or less maxed out my 'safe' climbing speed.  But if a route involves sections of snow I find the weight of normal boots and crampons make it impossible to run (at least for me).  So a really light setup that still climbs well enough could be interesting.

I will follow up later this season if I work something out.  Thanks again, I really appreciate the thoughtful replies.

I’m not doing anything like that but I’m pretty sure that’s the design philosophy behind the scarpa ribelle HD and it’s many variants.

Ueli wanted a boot he could climb ice in and “run” on snow slopes.

Edit: apparently there’s a “tech” variant that looks promising for you.

I have ran in phantom techs and imo, they run surprisingly well even in a pair of darts. 

for other kind of speed projects I am also going to leave Kilians overboot "prototypes" here.

I put prototypes in "" as I don't think they have too much in common with the S/Lab X Alpine Modular which later got released by Salomon. 

Kilian's prototypes definitely look interesting with probably a much stiffer carbon sole as well as bolt-on crampons. Not surprising that Salomon didn't see a market for those but I would still really love to get something like that. 

In some IG post Kilian mentioned that he wished that he had those for the Grand Jorasses north face (via Colton-Macintyre) he did valley-to-valley a couple of years ago instead of going for the combination of X-Alp shoes with carbon insoles, cross-country neopren overboots and strap-on crampons (he did follow most of the technical parts and his partner was wearing boots).

Melanie Shea wrote:

I’m not doing anything like that but I’m pretty sure that’s the design philosophy behind the scarpa ribelle HD and it’s many variants.

Ueli wanted a boot he could climb ice in and “run” on snow slopes.

Edit: apparently there’s a “tech” variant that looks promising for you.

Ribelle Tech with Hybrid-Darts is a cool combination that I have used a couple of times. Great for moderate alpine climbing. For a project involving speed climbing WI4 I think a Phantom Tech with Hybrid-Darts would be faster even with the slight weight penalty. 

Jakob Melchior wrote:

Ueli during his 2015 Eiger Speed record. He bolted regular Dart front and heel sections to the Rebel Ice.

yeah, but only someone like Ueli should have been trying something like that, and even then, speed records on alpine climbs are a dicey subject. 

In the end I went with Sportiva Trango Ice Cubes with Dart hybrid crampons.  This was a really sweet setup.  Best performance of any boot/crampon combo I have tried for actual ice climbing on steep ice and quite light for running in snow.  Only place performance suffers is low angle ice where the alu rear piece on the crampons is not great.  The Trango Ice Cube is a 700g boot.  The newish sportiva g-tech is 600g and I would guess this is the current best option, combined with the hybrid Dart crampon, for light, fast climbing of waterfall ice.

Jakob Melchior wrote:

Ueli during his 2015 Eiger Speed record. He bolted regular Dart front and heel sections to the Rebel Ice.

Came here to comment this but you got it! If speed is your need then they are the best... Colin Haley also used them on many routes in patagonia along with rock shoes... 

Artem Vee wrote:

My setup for this is the la sportiva aequilibrium + petzl irvis hybrid. Brilliant stuff, very light but quite capable of moderate climbing. 

Moderate = wi4-5? I used that exact setup this summer in the winds and on a 20 to 30 degree glacier i was kicking the boots through the soft toe catch of the ivris.... Yes very light but i would not want to be on real ice with that set up

Artem Vee wrote:

Sounds like you didn’t fit the crampon on the boot properly. This only happens if you don’t refit after the initial dyneema stretch. I felt fine climbing M3 and moderate (3/4) alpine ice in mine, but spent a lot of time getting them to fit perfectly - took the crampons on and off several times getting the perfect ultra tight fit each time the dyneema settled a little more. Also, the Irvis can go full auto - for the full shank boots, which is nice. Same dyneema stretch problem though. 

That being said this setup is not for everybody - nothing wrong with that. I do think once you dial it in, it’s quite good for the weight. 

It wasn't the dyneema stretch it was that the narrow toe of the aequilibrium speed and it was slipping thrigh the white plastic toe basket... It could have been a steel bar and i still would have been slipping the toe through the basket... I added some 3mm cord to the basket like a x pattern net and that fixed the issue... 

Andrew Lamb wrote:

It wasn't the dyneema stretch it was that the narrow toe of the aequilibrium speed and it was slipping thrigh the white plastic toe basket... It could have been a steel bar and i still would have been slipping the toe through the basket... I added some 3mm cord to the basket like a x pattern net and that fixed the issue... 

I am slightly surprised that you had issues with the petzl toe basket. I have used my irvis hybrids with Salomon XA Alpine shoes (with stiff carbon insoles) and the toe basket worked fine. But I was also not frontpointing much in that combination. 

How do you like the Aequilibrium Speed otherwise? I want to replace my Ribelle Techs at some point as I get too sweaty in them and the Aequilibrium Speed looks like a good alternative. Can you leave the gaiter unzipped for better ventilation on hotter parts of a tour? That is what I do with my Salomon XA Alpine or X Alp shoes and it is so much better than the tight neoprene gaiter on the Ribelle Techs.