Is it “layback” or “lieback?”

Let’s settle this.  Throw down your cards!

layback is the verb lieback is the noun they are both correct if they are used in the proper syntax

When you are talking about reclining, the past tense of lie is lay. So it would be a lieback that you did a Layback on.

Edit: And it depends on what you are referring to. The act of doing it, or the actual corner/crack as being a noun. Lay is transitive; it requires that the verb have an object; there has to be a thing or person being placed: Lay it down. Lie, on the other hand, is intransitive. It's for something or someone moving on their own or something that's already in position: You can lie down there.

Hmmm.  Going exact opposite.  “Layback” is the noun, as in the climb involves a Layback on the second pitch…

The verb would be “I had to resort to liebacking that second pitch..”

Not saying it’s justified, just the way it is. 

The actual act of reclining (in the past tense) is 'laying back." In present tense it is to lie back. Neither are a noun as far as doing a lieback (the action) or you did a Layback (as a movement) but lie requires a direct object.

Mark Pilate wrote:

Hmmm.  Going exact opposite.  “Layback” is the noun, as in the climb involves a Layback on the second pitch…

The verb would be “I had to resort to liebacking that second pitch..”

Not saying it’s justified, just the way it is. 

Nope. The verb analysis up-thread is spot on.

I’m so bored that I’m gonna layback and see what nonsense is going on in the MP world. 

Jake wander wrote:

I’m so bored that I’m gonna layback and see what nonsense is going on in the MP world. 

Close. You are going to lie back.

Neither. Just sink some jams 

If it comes after a lot of arm bars in an off width it may feel more like a  Lyeback.

Both are totally made up words so use whatever you want. If climbers actually say Lay or Lie, instead of lieback or layback, then maybe it is wise to use the correct word. Like LatinX for Latino, Laybacking & Liebacking debates are a matter of personal preference and maybe wokeness.

You also have my permission to make up your own word and define it as you see fit. Climbers clearly did. And English is a fluid language so if enough climbers use one or the other then it is perfectly valid word choice.

Teton Climber wrote:

Both are totally made up words so use whatever you want.

So that means when I belay you I can say umma-gumma instead of on belay? And when you want to confirm that I have you for lowering I can say fringlepop?

No. Words have meaning and arbitrarily changing that just because it's "made up" is gen-Z bullshit.

The technique is a layback. It is used on lieback corners.

Marc801 C wrote:

So that means when I belay you I can say umma-gumma instead of on belay? And when you want to confirm that I have you for lowering I can say fringlepop?

No. Words have meaning and arbitrarily changing that just because it's "made up" is gen-Z bullshit.

The technique is a layback. It is used on lieback corners.

OOOH. You can do whatever you want. None gives a fuck about layback or lieback except the same type of people who get all flustered and demand that everyone use LatinX. The woke word police.

Marc801 C wrote:

So that means when I belay you I can say umma-gumma instead of on belay? And when you want to confirm that I have you for lowering I can say fringlepop?

These are fine if I understand you and you understand me. It may reduce confusion at a crowded crag to do this.

You do not get to decide how I communicate with others. You may have an opinion about it but I’m not interested in it if it boils down to “you must do it my way”.

More to the point, the previous post was correct in regards to English being fluid. That’s how one of the official definitions of literally has literally become “not literally”. That one drives me nuts but I get it. 

Ted Pinson wrote:

Let’s settle this.  Throw down your cards!

The trolls are out of control on here.

Marc801 C wrote:

So that means when I belay you I can say umma-gumma instead of on belay? And when you want to confirm that I have you for lowering I can say fringlepop?

No. Words have meaning and arbitrarily changing that just because it's "made up" is gen-Z bullshit.

The technique is a layback. It is used on lieback corners.

Marc, you may be taking this too seriously and are on shaky ground linguistically speaking.

It’s not as cut and dried as you seem to think.  Teton Climber was correct —and so was I above, even if perhaps disputably so.   If you search the word,  the more common and accepted result is that Layback is a noun.  

Lieback, if it exists at all (in terms of it’s derivational morphology, or neologism) exists only in our collective imagination here on MP and in climbing related literature - and thus it’s a free for all. 

This is very simple.  "To lay" is a transitive verb meaning, "to set something down."  "To lie" is an intransitive verb meaning "to repose or recline."  So: "I laid that crack back." Or, "Yo, dude, lay that thing back!" Or, "Should I lay it back or jam it?" Or, "There was this tricky lay-back on P3." Or, "She cruised the crux as a lay-back...what a boss!" 

The devil reposes (did you see that?) in the fact that some past tenses of "to lie" are conjugated as "laid."  As in, "I wanted to lie down in that bed, but someone had already claimed it, so I laid down in another one."  If it weren't for that one grammatical complication, it would be so much harder to differentiate literate people from most climbers.

Matt Antonio wrote:

This is very simple.  "To lay" is a transitive verb meaning, "to set something down."  "To lie" is an intransitive verb meaning "to repose or recline."  So: "I laid that crack back." Or, "Yo, dude, lay that thing back!" Or, "Should I lay it back or jam it?" Or, "There was this tricky lay-back on P3." Or, "She cruised the crux as a lay-back...what a boss!" 

The devil reposes (did you see that?) in the fact that some past tenses of "to lie" are conjugated as "laid."  As in, "I wanted to lie down in that bed, but someone had already claimed it, so I laid down in another one."  If it weren't for that one grammatical complication, it would be so much harder to differentiate literate people from most climbers.

Wow that’s intense. 

It really depends on if you are talking about lyebacking an offwith onsite in a splitter corner. 

If your rappel anchor is webbing and a carabiner, it's layback.  If your ab anchor is tape and a crab, it's lieback.

Edge wrote:

Forgive me for stating the obvious, but why isn’t it a pullback crack or pullbacking?  Unless you’re underneath a horizontal roof, there’s no lie or laying back at all.

With ya.

I think of a can opener when I watch climbers pullbacking up a crack, running along the edge.

Let's replace the term altogether