Buying second hand belay devices

Is anyone comfortable buying second hand belay devices?
Obviously one asks if the device has been dropped. Apart from that, the belay device would need to be inspected very closely prior to use.

Would you think that some sellers might lie about a dropped device and sell it anyway?

I know I've used partners' belay devices many times. In that scenario, I've never asked if it was bought new or if it was ever dropped.

Why would it matter if it had been dropped? 

Take this with a grain of salt.

I dropped my gri gri off a 300ft granite summit, watched it bounce all the way down.  Retrieved it later that day from the bottom of a squeeze chimney. Besides a few scratches you couldn't tell it was dropped. 

After testing it out with a self belay a few feet off the ground. It still works like new. I still use it every weekend. 

If you don't feel comfortable with buying used just spend the extra cash so you know the history of the device. 

Patrick L wrote:

Why would it matter if it had been dropped? 

A more useful question:

Why would you be certain it was ok after it fell a hundred feet and and landed on solid rock?

soft crux wrote:

A more useful question:

Why would you be certain it was ok after it fell a hundred feet and and landed on solid rock?

Solid metal behaves in predictable ways. Micro-fractures are a debunked myth. If its a gri-gri, then yes, I would test it as he mentioned, but its not going to magically fail at random if it is not deformed and continues to work after the impact. If it's a non-assist device made of solid metal and it looks fine, then its fine. Again, if you're really paranoid, back it up and test it. 

Sellers lie all the time.

That said, I bought a used Smart from a friend with no hesitation.  I have also bought used cams and sold used gear.  If hard goods are still visually and functionally OK, they are going to be OK for climbing.

Sam Bedell wrote:

Solid metal behaves in predictable ways. Micro-fractures are a debunked myth. If its a gri-gri, then yes, I would test it as he mentioned, but its not going to magically fail at random if it is not deformed and continues to work after the impact. If it's a non-assist device made of solid metal and it looks fine, then its fine. Again, if you're really paranoid, back it up and test it. 

lol, I never said micro-fractures!

Any solid metal belay device is less than $40 new, it's a critical piece of gear.... how much are you going to save buying used?

Is that savings worth having to explain to every partner that you are belaying them with a device someone may or may not have found laying at the base of the crag? 

A more MORE useful question - do you grill everyone you climb with about the history of their gear and when/how they acquired it?  I doubt it.

I don't see me settling into a long term climbing relationship with someone that, um, cautious. (I was going to say paranoid). But then they probably wouldn't get along with me either after I disclosed the history of some of my gear.

Do run your hands over all the edges. My original ATC is still fine....but it's getting worn down and starting to get a sharpened edge.

A grigri, I'd wanna be sure I know just which one, or an approximate vintage. Make sure it's happy with my ropes. Shoot, even the newest BD guide ATCs are a smidge skinnier, and that's not even counting the alpine version, skinnier yet.

I have no qualms about used, especially if I know the person. Like someone said, I trust other people's crap every time I climb with a partner. Or at the gym. Although, I do eyeball the heavily used gym stuff suspiciously. Even there, though, I am largely trusting them to not fuck up and keep up their stuff.

Best, Helen

I took a fall once and got hurt while wearing a perfectly good pair of climbing shoes. It wasn't the shoe's fault; a hold broke. But coming back after, I was way more afraid when wearing those shoes than other shoes. Brains are weird like that.

There's just the one belay device in the system. If you have any doubt about it, even a silly irrational doubt, it's not worth it. If you save money but never fully trust the device, you didn't really save money. You just made climbing less fun.

Apart from my current Reverso and GriGri, all my other belay devices we bought used. Once I've decided I'm happy with a device, whether bought second hand or dropped by me, I can forget about it and never think about it again. Buying used has worked well for me over the years. I've tried every device I can get my hands on and tested them in any way I can think off.

I've never asked any partner about their device's history. Most partners just show up with a brand new device and use that from then on. 

I've been offered a scratched but otherwise fine Climbing Technology Alpine Up with practically no wear for 15 dollars. I don't want to replace my current setup, just looking for an alpine device for halfs and singles. Seller promises it wasn't dropped. It's the only device I don't have and I like that price.

Patrick L wrote:

Why would it matter if it had been dropped? 

Because microfractures, man!

I think it’s clear.  If you’re even asking the question, don’t buy used.  

Otherwise buy it, and don’t worry about it.  It’s fine. 

I once was almost hit by a falling GriGri. It tumbled about three pitches and hit pretty hard. It looked brand new except for a mark in the face plate where it had impacted. The face plate was deformed a bit, but it was hard to tell there was anything wrong except that it didn't close smoothly. Maybe I could have bent it back into place, maybe I could have sold it, but I tossed it.

I would never use an active device, with moving parts, that had been dropped from a significant height.  I might consider using a passive device that is solid metal if I saw that didn't hit hard or trusted the seller. But those devices aren't too expensive anyway, so why take the chance?

If someone was selling me a device for $15 that retailed for ~$100, I might be a little suspect unless I knew the seller.

Dropping gear doesn't matter?  Here's a thought exercise: What if I bought a new belay device, never used it for belaying, but chucked it off a 100 foot cliff every day for a few months. Is it as good as new? Would you buy it? How many drops does it take before it's not good?

On the one hand, it’s good to be safe. On the other, you should replace your rope every 5 years or once it reaches its rated number of falls, inspect your partner’s car brakes before each trip, and start doomsday prepping, ‘cause just in case… 

soft crux wrote:

Dropping gear doesn't matter?  Here's a thought exercise: What if I bought a new belay device, never used it for belaying, but chucked it off a 100 foot cliff every day for a few months. Is it as good as new? Would you buy it? How many drops does it take before it's not good?

When the gouges are frequent or deep enough to damage rope, or, if a mechanical device with moving parts like a gri-gri, until it's deformed enough to affect operation. That can be 100 drops of 100' or one drop of 25' - depends on what and how it hits. Good inspection is required.

i think a more useful question is would anyone on here try sell a belay device that they themselves believe is actually unsafe and also lie to you and say that it is totally safe? they're only like $15. if visual inspection is not enough and you need to know the history of every item that your life depends on, you probably should be bringing all the gear, including your partners harness.

to the OP, if someone is selling something, ask them for details if you're worried, but normal belay devices are probably the most sturdy pieces of gear - no soft parts and no moving parts. good luck! i have some ATCs for sale if you want one you can't get at REI...

Sam Cook wrote:

Take this with a grain of salt.

I dropped my gri gri off a 300ft granite summit, watched it bounce all the way down.  Retrieved it later that day from the bottom of a squeeze chimney. Besides a few scratches you couldn't tell it was dropped. 

After testing it out with a self belay a few feet off the ground. It still works like new. I still use it every weekend. 

If you don't feel comfortable with buying used just spend the extra cash so you know the history of the device. 

You have me beat. I only dropped mine 100 feet. Same result. Thousands of pitches belayed since the drop.

soft crux wrote:

Dropping gear doesn't matter?  Here's a thought exercise: What if I bought a new belay device, never used it for belaying, but chucked it off a 100 foot cliff every day for a few months. Is it as good as new? Would you buy it? How many drops does it take before it's not good?

If it still functioned properly and wasn't visibly damaged, yeah I'd still trust it.

People whip on bolts, sometimes multiple times a day, every day for years. Do you still trust those bolts? How many falls until they are no longer good? What about falling on your quick draws. How many falls before you no longer use them?

OP: Sounds like you'd be better off buying brand new. Soft goods I wouldn't buy used unless I knew and trusted the person, like a close friend. They can have damages that you can't see. But hard goods can be inspected yourself.

Mike zzz wrote:

People whip on bolts, sometimes multiple times a day, every day for years. Do you still trust those bolts? How many falls until they are no longer good? What about falling on your quick draws. How many falls before you no longer use them?

...and that's exactly the point you are missing: Whipping on a bolt is using a bolt exactly for what it is designed to do.Belay devices aren't designed to be tossed off cliffs. No manufacturer drop tests their belay devices or makes any claim to it's function after being dropped.

I get it though, most gear is simple and as long as there are no visible structural issues there is almost no chance that there would be invisible structural issues. So that dropped device is likely ok.

Still it would be interesting to buy a gri gri, throw it off a cliff a hundred times, and try to sell it with full disclosure at a deep discount. I don't think there would be many takers. Then again maybe  a "dropped gear for sale" thread in the For Sale section would be very popular.