Misty Mountain: Cadillac 2021

Thoughts on the new version?
https://mistymountain.com/shop/climbing-shop/wall/new-cadillac-quick-adjust-mens/

The quality looks like it has gone down a little and the price has gone up.  Allegedly, MM says the new version should be retired after 2 years of regular weekend use.  

Edit: from a friend, the stitching looks poorly done.  The nylon around the hard points is pretty rigid and was cut by a hot knife leaving an edge.  The concern, is this will cause abrasion on the rope.

Anna needs to do another gear review for the fans. 

The quality looks like it has gone down a little and the price has gone up.  

I'm curious how you came to the conclusion that quality went down by looking at 4 stock photos?

Tyler Collins wrote:

I'm curious how you came to the conclusion that quality went down by looking at 4 stock photos?

Note, the rough inside edge inside of the tie in point

For comparison, this is the inside of the hardpoint with the older model:

Gumby King wrote:

Note, the rough inside edge inside of the tie in point
For comparison, this is the inside of the hardpoint with the older model:

The tie-in points of my old MM Caddy wore out way faster than any other harness I have owned. Not sure if it's the material or construction. The rest of the harness looked fantastic, but I was temped to do some DIY preventative care to keep the harness from destroying itself pre-maturely. Curious how this new version holds up.

The MM Caddy I bought was expensive but totally worth it because it was the best harness available at any price. But that was in 1995...

Today the MM Caddy is an expensive relic. What differentiates harnesses these days are the details, and MM stuff often suffers from the issues pointed out in this thread. 

"You can tell it's made by hand" is not a desirable quality for climbing gear.

Adam Fleming wrote:

The tie-in points of my old MM Caddy wore out way faster than any other harness I have owned. Not sure if it's the material or construction. The rest of the harness looked fantastic, but I was temped to do some DIY preventative care to keep the harness from destroying itself pre-maturely. Curious how this new version holds up.

How odd I have the opposite experience with mine.  I wonder if it's a problem with sporadic quality control and not so much that they are always bad....

quality check tag still in the way?

Gumby King wrote:

Thoughts on the new version?
https://mistymountain.com/shop/climbing-shop/wall/new-cadillac-quick-adjust-mens/

The quality looks like it has gone down a little and the price has gone up.  Allegedly, MM says the new version should be retired after 2 years of regular weekend use.  

Edit: from a friend, the stitching looks poorly done.  The nylon around the hard points is pretty rigid and was cut by a hot knife leaving an edge.  The concern, is this will cause abrasion on the rope.

This is an American made quality product and your criticism is offensive to the hard working folks getting paid livable wages to manufacture it. The points you show are superficial and have no bearing on the functionality of this excellent harness.

I have exclusively purchased Cadillac's for my entire 20+ year climbing life and have never encountered the durability or quality issues listed above.  It may boil down to a less-experienced employee is building that harness?? I do not think they are overpriced for (what is usually) a very high-quality American-made product.  I climb regularly 1-3 days a week outdoors and generally get 5 years out of a Misty.  If they have lowered the retirement age to only 2 years, that is indeed a disappointment.  I hope that's just liability-theatrics, rather than a reflection of actual durability. 

My most recent purchase this year was a Silhouette harness in 2020.  I will definitely go back to Cadillac next time (since I'm evidently in- between sizes on the single- buckle styles).  Inspecting the new 2021 harness- I don't see any issues with stitching or construction.  The inside of the tie-in is finished cleanly and doesn't have those loose unfinished edges pictured above.  

My biggest new-design criticism: I HATE the modification they made where the butt- straps attaches to the waistband.   It's now a hook through elastic.   It stretched out and became useless in 6 months. . It was constantly becoming un- hooked .  Sitting down or, even in the middle of climbs once it got really stretched out.   It's also total fvcking PIA to try fiddle that hook through the loop blind behind your back.  For the first time ever- I had to send a Misty back for repair.  I had them replace it with the old- style squeeze clip with no elastic in the mix.  They did do the repair/replacement with a old- style clip for free pretty quickly. 

Maidy Vasquez wrote:

I have exclusively purchased Cadillac's for my entire 20+ year climbing life and have never encountered the durability or quality issues listed above.  It may boil down to a less-experienced employee is building that harness?? I do not think they are overpriced for (what is usually) a very high-quality American-made product.  I climb regularly 1-3 days a week outdoors and generally get 5 years out of a Misty.  If they have lowered the retirement age to only 2 years, that is indeed a disappointment.  I hope that's just liability-theatrics, rather than a reflection of actual durability. 

My most recent purchase this year was a Silhouette harness.  I will definitely go back to Cadillac next time (since I'm evidently in- between sizes on the single- buckle styles).  Inspecting the new 2021 harness- I don't see any issues with stitching or construction.  The inside of the tie-in is finished cleanly and doesn't have those loose unfinished edges pictured above.  

My biggest new-design criticism: I HATE the modification they made where the butt- straps attaches to the waistband.   It's now a hook through elastic.   It stretched out and became useless in 6 months. . It was constantly becoming un- hooked .  Sitting down or, even in the middle of climbs once it got really stretched out.   It's also total fvcking PIA to try fiddle that hook through the loop blind behind your back.  For the first time ever- I had to send a Misty back for repair.  I had them replace it with the old- style squeeze clip with no elastic in the mix.  They did do the repair/replacement with a old- style clip for free pretty quickly. 

A friend is having to send their harness back because of the elastic.  It was used a few times in maybe a month and it overstretched and MM is making the repair.

Edit:  Yes, I'm on my second harness pre-2021 and love the shit out of it!  One is 6 years old and is still trucking just fine :-)

Bill W wrote:

This is an American made quality product and your criticism is offensive to the hard working folks getting paid livable wages to manufacture it. The points you show are superficial and have no bearing on the functionality of this excellent harness.

Every harness functions. Any harness will hold you, any harness is safe. Every harness has the basics: buckle, gear loops, etc.

The difference in harnesses come down to details and MM has been skimping on details for years.  The klunky buckles on the leg loops don't stay tight, the stitching is often not clean, the hardpoints aren't durable, they use dated padding materials that isn't nearly as comfortable as many want to believe it is .... and they cost more than twice as much as most other good harnesses.

If you want to spend twice as much as a not-so-excellent harness, go ahead, but understand all you are really doing is giving charity to a company that stopped trying to keep up years ago. I'd rather spend $80 on a well-built harness and give the extra $50+ to the ASCA.

As an oddly shaped  mutant I bought a Misty because I could get it custom made. Extra small belt, small leg loops with an extra short rise.  I have gotten about 6  years out of  my previous 3  misty harness

soft crux wrote:

If you want to spend twice as much as a not-so-excellent harness, go ahead, but understand all you are really doing is giving charity to a company that stopped trying to keep up years ago. I'd rather spend $80 on a well-built harness and give the extra $50+ to the ASCA.

Your choice to make obviously. I wouldn't regard it as simple charity. 

I try pretty hard not to support companies outsourcing to SE Asia when feasible. Japan, S Korea, Taiwan are all fine but for the rest (most especially China) I'm not psyched on the slave/child labor sitch. It's not always possible to boycott, and as far as a lot of the things I need for my job and everyday life (particularly technology) I'm stuck. 

Sometimes you pay more for having your product made in a country with a more progressive labor environment AND get a better product out of the deal. Think Western Mountaineering here. I've been lucky in most of my hobbies and discretionary purchases. Very fine climbing, backpacking, skiing, mtb goods to be found coming out of places that take issue with children going to a factory instead of school. 

But sometimes you just get an equivalent product for more money, and sometimes it's not quite as good. It's not that China hasn't figured out how to make nice shit, look at Arc'teryx hardshells. 

Ultimately it will sometimes come down to how much that principle means to me. I don't want junk, but I am willing to compromise for a lot of things. 

I'm not a Misty apologist specifically. I don't have one but I do have a Metolius for a lot of the same reasons that I might buy a Misty, and you could levy a lot of the same criticisms against it. Fits me well and does the job though. I'd order the same one again. 

I am not an authority on morality and don't claim your way of spending $80 +$50 is any more or less honorable. But it's not a simple matter of charity or your being more clever than the people buying from Misty. 

soft crux wrote:

Every harness functions. Any harness will hold you, any harness is safe. Every harness has the basics: buckle, gear loops, etc.

The difference in harnesses come down to details and MM has been skimping on details for years.  The klunky buckles on the leg loops don't stay tight, the stitching is often not clean, the hardpoints aren't durable, they use dated padding materials that isn't nearly as comfortable as many want to believe it is .... and they cost more than twice as much as most other good harnesses.

If you want to spend twice as much as a not-so-excellent harness, go ahead, but understand all you are really doing is giving charity to a company that stopped trying to keep up years ago. I'd rather spend $80 on a well-built harness and give the extra $50+ to the ASCA.

Then take your comcerns directly to MM, don't air it out on MP, that's just trolling.

Bill W wrote:

Then take your comcerns directly to MM, don't air it out on MP, that's just trolling.

I'm talking about climbing gear on a climbing site. There is a whole section on MP called Gear Reviews full of opinions about ....... gear.

I actually did write MM years ago about bad stitching on a harness.. Nothing structural, but the issue caused the belt tuck flap to partially tear out after just a couple of uses. It was clearly not stitched correctly and looked like my home economics sewing project from middle school. I figured they'd be pretty concerned about a QC issue, offer to repair or - based on the raving reviews I've head about their service over the years -  replace the harness. 

Their response was "thanks for the heads up." 

I climbed with it for a while, the waistbelt always flapping around in front of me, and then (foolishly) tried a newer model a year later. This one also had issues. The buckles on the leg loops were worthless and I was constantly having to tighten them.  You can see in the second picture in this thread that the tail of the leg loop strap does not tuck in snugly, the loop of slack will snag easily and just fall out of the keeper.  That contributed to the problem of the leg buckles coming loose. So on my new harness it was the leg loop straps that were always flapping in front of me. Not a safety issue, but why would anyone pay more for this?

soft crux wrote:

I'm talking about climbing gear on a climbing site. There is a whole section on MP called Gear Reviews full of opinions about ....... gear.

I actually did write MM years ago about bad stitching on a harness.. Nothing structural, but the issue caused the belt tuck flap to partially tear out after just a couple of uses. It was clearly not stitched correctly and looked like my home economics sewing project from middle school. I figured they'd be pretty concerned about a QC issue, offer to repair or - based on the raving reviews I've head about their service over the years -  replace the harness. 

Their response was "thanks for the heads up." 

I climbed with it for a while, the waistbelt always flapping around in front of me, and then (foolishly) tried a newer model a year later. This one also had issues. The buckles on the leg loops were worthless and I was constantly having to tighten them.  You can see in the second picture in this thread that the tail of the leg loop strap does not tuck in snugly, the loop of slack will snag easily and just fall out of the keeper.  That contributed to the problem of the leg buckles coming loose. So on my new harness it was the leg loop straps that were always flapping in front of me. Not a safety issue, but why would anyone pay more for this?

Yes, I have the same issues with the leg buckles.  I have to constantly tighten down the Quick Adjust version.  I have a manual buckle on the other harness and no issues.

-

I did have an issue one time with a harness and they never got back to me after multiple emails and calls.  It was not a critical issue and I was will to pay for the repairs...

soft crux wrote:

I'm talking about climbing gear on a climbing site. There is a whole section on MP called Gear Reviews full of opinions about ....... gear.

I actually did write MM years ago about bad stitching on a harness.. Nothing structural, but the issue caused the belt tuck flap to partially tear out after just a couple of uses. It was clearly not stitched correctly and looked like my home economics sewing project from middle school. I figured they'd be pretty concerned about a QC issue, offer to repair or - based on the raving reviews I've head about their service over the years -  replace the harness. 

Their response was "thanks for the heads up." 

I climbed with it for a while, the waistbelt always flapping around in front of me, and then (foolishly) tried a newer model a year later. This one also had issues. The buckles on the leg loops were worthless and I was constantly having to tighten them.  You can see in the second picture in this thread that the tail of the leg loop strap does not tuck in snugly, the loop of slack will snag easily and just fall out of the keeper.  That contributed to the problem of the leg buckles coming loose. So on my new harness it was the leg loop straps that were always flapping in front of me. Not a safety issue, but why would anyone pay more for this?

Get manual buckles, problem solved.

Bill W wrote:

Get manual buckles, problem solved.

lol, and you say I'm the one trolling?

Every harness maker has speed buckles. Speed buckles are the standard now and have been for at least a decade. And they work fine on every other brand I've used, about six different harnesses over the years.

MM specializes in harnesses, they cost as much as twice as other brands, and they can't even get the fucking buckles right!?!?

Bill W wrote:

Get manual buckles, problem solved.

I tie mine in a tight overhand around the keeper, no issues.  That minor inconvenience is worth it to me for the features and durability I've gotten out of my caddy.

Christopher Smith wrote:

I tie mine in a tight overhand around the keeper, no issues.  That minor inconvenience is worth it to me for the features and durability I've gotten out of my caddy.

Pay twice as much as another harness, get the speed buckles, and then untie and retie knots every time you need to adjust! 

What features? An extra gear loop, ok. Durability? They are made of the same material as any other harness, if not worse. And only if you are lucky and they actually stitched it right. 

This has to be a joke ...or a cult.

(If someone wants a beefy harness that holds lots of gear, get the BD Big Gun. All the features, better quality, even costs less.)