Freerider & those who have climbed it, answer me this...

I'm trying to get a sense of how difficult Alex H's free solo climb of Freerider was. I think it's a 5.13a? 

For those of you who have climbed it, could you imagine solo'ing it?  

It was 5.12+ back when Alex soloed it so not that bad at all. I think even my grandma free soloed it after he did

The most difficult part of Freerider for me was trying to get my hands to stop sweating sitting on my couch watching Free Solo. That alone was solid 5.11+ 

Aaron Kolb wrote:

What, you're thinking you'll do the first flash solo of El Cap?

Godspeed my man

God no. 

Just for sheer enjoyment and awe, I'm pondering Alex's physical/mental in-the-moment experience and trying to understand how hard the climb was/is, as compared to, let's say, a gym route of the same grade. Rough math-- is it like 20 gym-height pitches of 5.13a in row? 

Take a look at the topo (it is missing the Boulder Problem pitch).

It is not equivalent to several 5.13a pitches in a row.

There are a variety of grades, but several are 5.12 and 5.11.

There are several different challenges.

One is to do the Boulder Problem pitch perfectly.

Another is to be very solid on all the other pitches, and not get too tired while climbing them.

Trying to equate gym climbing and gym ratings to Yosemite-style crack/big wall climbing is pretty iffy, IMO. Gym grades are all over the place and the style is normally WAY different… and gym pitches are often short. I guess you could TRY to compare the two worlds that way just to get a sense of the “effort” required.  If that is the case, then maybe imagine 40-50 (60?) short gym pitches stacked atop one another, ranging from 5.10/5.11 to 5.13… then climb them all consecutively, unroped, without a single slip. Maybe that somewhat poor comparison would give a general idea of the magnitude of Alex’s achievement??? 

Aaron Kolb wrote:

What, you're thinking you'll do the first flash solo of El Cap?

Godspeed my man

In addition to the first flash solo of El Cap it would also be the first flash of El Cap. Flashing El Cap is perhaps the lowest hanging fruit of big achievements in climbing. It really surprises me more elite climbers don’t attempt it, particularly since it would be a “first.”

I believe Rearden actually was considering trying to flash solo Freerider. 

Daniel Joder wrote:

Trying to equate gym climbing and gym ratings to Yosemite-style crack/big wall climbing is pretty iffy, IMO. Gym grades are all over the place and the style is normally WAY different… and gym pitches are often short. I guess you could TRY to compare the two worlds that way just to get a sense of the “effort” required.  If that is the case, then maybe imagine 40-50 (60?) short gym pitches stacked atop one another, ranging from 5.10/5.11 to 5.13… then climb them all consecutively, unroped, without a single slip. Maybe that somewhat poor comparison would give a general idea of the magnitude of Alex’s achievement??? 

Yeah, this is what I was looking for, thanks. Even if it's a poor comparison, as you say. 

I think what astounds me most about free soloing (though I'll never try it in this lifetime) is the commitment. The act of setting out. Reminds me of that short documentary about people standing at the top of the Olympic high dive platform, all trying to find the courage to commit, battling the internal impulse to flee. Also, it seems that the difficulty of Freerider isn't *that* hard for elite climbers (but way above my pay grade). So it's certainly conceivable that many others could do the physical climbing, but who else has the mental game for it? 

Go to Yosemite and lead a 5.9 on gear… you’ll pretty quickly realize there is absolutely no comparison to gym climbing. It’s a whole different world my friend.

Elijah S wrote:

Go to Yosemite and lead a 5.9 on gear… you’ll pretty quickly realize there is absolutely no comparison to gym climbing. It’s a whole different world my friend.

Up it to 10b and lead Ahab on gear.

Elijah S wrote:

Go to Yosemite and lead a 5.9 on gear… you’ll pretty quickly realize there is absolutely no comparison to gym climbing. It’s a whole different world my friend.

Hell, go to Yosemite and lead 5.6 on bolted slab and you'll just as quickly realize this. 

Edit: 5.fun on bolted slab

Eric Metzgar wrote:

Yeah, this is what I was looking for, thanks. Even if it's a poor comparison, as you say. 

I think what astounds me most about free soloing (though I'll never try it in this lifetime) is the commitment. The act of setting out. Reminds me of that short documentary about people standing at the top of the Olympic high dive platform, all trying to find the courage to commit, battling the internal impulse to flee. Also, it seems that the difficulty of Freerider isn't *that* hard for elite climbers (but way above my pay grade). So it's certainly conceivable that many others could do the physical climbing, but who else has the mental game for it? 

You'd probably enjoy reading this thread: https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/117753720/training-for-freerider-tips

I think a lot of 'elite' sport climbers (how are we defining this? 5.14a RP?) would fail to climb Freerider without putting in a ton of work (obviously doesn't apply to Ondra et al). It's just a way different style and different kind of fitness.

I personally doubt Alex's solo will ever be repeated. It was a multi year project for him, and since it's already been done I think the other soloists will gravitate towards other objectives.

Clint Cummins wrote:

One is to do the Boulder Problem pitch perfectly.

This. I think something that a lot of people miss/forget about is that Alex practiced that move somewhere around 60 times. He repeatedly practiced many other pitches as well. He left very little to chance.

Yeah, OP here. For those of you commenting or soon to comment with something like -- "well, go climb Yosemite and you'll see there's no comparison with gym climbing..." 

I'm not going to climb multi-pitch lead in Yosemite. Ever. I'm nearing 50 with two knees problems and two little kids. So I'm trying to use 1) my imagination and 2) what I do know (gym climbing and moderate single-pitch outdoor stuff)... to try to comprehend the difficulty of Alex's feat. So the kind of answer I'm seeking, if you wanna be helpful and not a snarky MP smartass, would be something like: "Well, in gym terms, Freerider would be like ____."  And yes, again, I know they're not the same, but they are comparable.  Because when two things aren't the same, you compare them. 

Geez, is it possible to daydream on MP?

My dad of all people sent me this, thought it was a good look for people who aren't as familiar with El Cap: 

https://www.reddit.com/r/climbing/comments/6fg6z4/more_looks_at_some_of_the_freerider_cruxes_aka/

Eric Metzgar wrote:

Yeah, OP here. For those of you commenting or soon to comment with something like -- "well, go climb Yosemite and you'll see there's no comparison with gym climbing..." 

I'm not going to climb multi-pitch lead in Yosemite. Ever. I'm nearing 50 with two knees problems and two little kids. So I'm trying to use 1) my imagination and 2) what I do know (gym climbing and moderate single-pitch outdoor stuff)... to try to comprehend the difficulty of Alex's feat. So the kind of answer I'm seeking, if you wanna be helpful and not a snarky MP smartass, would be something like: "Well, in gym terms, Freerider would be like ____."  And yes, again, I know they're not the same, but they are comparable.  Because when two things aren't the same, you compare them. 

Geez, is it possible to daydream on MP?

I'm 55 with two kids.  Get out there and try it.  Multi pitch in Yosemite isn't some far off dream.  There are plenty of fun easy multis that are well within grasp.  Get out of the gym.

compared to, let's say, a gym route othe same grade. Rough math-- is it like 20 gym-height pitches of 5.13a in row? 

I find crack climbing to be much more difficult and burlier (when comparing the same grade) than gym-style face climbing, but also more secure, so better for soloing. I think a 5.10 crack on el Cap probably takes the same amount of effort as 5.11+ or something in a Bay Area gym, but if you're solid at the grade, the crack is going to be a more comfy solo. Obviously doesn't apply to cruxes like the boulder problem. 

If your gym wall is 45ft tall, then stack 73 gym pitches and you've got the height of freerider. Just so different though - there are lots of little ledges and such to rest on in wall climbing, although you also encounter stretches of hundreds of feet without any good stances. And the style of climbing is always changing from face climbing to straight in cracks to easy scrambling in a few sections. 

Fail Falling wrote:

Hell, go to Yosemite and lead 5.6 on bolted slab and you'll just as quickly realize this. 

Where is there a 5.6 "bolted" slab?

Gumby King wrote:

Where is there a 5.6 "bolted" slab?

There are a few around, but "bolted" is relative.

https://www.mountainproject.com/route/106852893/black-uhuru

soft crux wrote:

There are a few around, but "bolted" is relative.

https://www.mountainproject.com/route/106852893/black-uhuru

Ah, sorry.  To clarify, specifically in the valley portion.

Gumby King wrote:

Where is there a 5.6 "bolted" slab?

https://www.mountainproject.com/route/121360417/aoxomoxoa

Edit: seeing your clarification

https://www.mountainproject.com/route/116685214/a-pizza-view

But you're correct, I was thinking that there were 5.6 runout routes on Glacier Point Apron but I don't have my guidebook with me and as far as the database on MP is concerned I was incorrect in my remembering

Eric Metzgar wrote:

I'm trying to use 1) my imagination and 2) what I do know (gym climbing and moderate single-pitch outdoor stuff)... to try to comprehend the difficulty of Alex's feat. So the kind of answer I'm seeking, if you wanna be helpful and not a snarky MP smartass, would be something like: "Well, in gym terms, Freerider would be like ____."  And yes, again, I know they're not the same, but they are comparable.  Because when two things aren't the same, you compare them. 

Well, in gym terms, Freerider would be like ....... wait for it.... nothing you find in the gym. 

You see that's the difficulty, what you "do know" from gym climbing is not relevant to comprehending the difficulty of Alex's feat anymore than hang boarding or trail running isn't relevant to comprehending.