Versatile Belay parkas?

Hi all, looking to get some feedback on all your experience with belay parkas as there is such a variety out there if you’re willing to spend. I haven’t winter mountaineered yet but have been ice climbing in the Michigan UP at low single digits.

I’d like to find a well packable belay parka for around 200-300 that can keep me toasty at 0° and still warm enough to be happy at the summit of day Aconcagua or Denali. I picked up an Eddie Bauer peak XV for 200 but didn’t get a chance to use it as it was so bulky and not packable. Fast forward a year I picked up a MH nilas for 275 which seems marginally less toasty than the peak XV but infinitely more packable and lighter the XL fit on both feel pretty roomy but good enough to cinch down and not worry about any cool drafts.

I also see deals frequently on OR super alpine down belay parka with the pertex 30D nylon outer shell fabric which seems good but just don’t know which to keep/get. Anyone have a go to solid, affordable recommendation or experience with a parka they’ve married and will never deviate from? 

I have the OR super alpine.   It’s a very warm jacket, I only use it as a belay jacket and an around camp jacket in the winter.   I like it because it’s long, it covers your back and half way down yer butt, I like that because when you sit in a camp chair it covers your lower back well instead of riding up, provides great insulation.   Don’t expect to wear it climbing, way to big and bulky but it’s a perfect belay jacket.  

A bit more than a year ago I picked the Norrona Trollveggen Down 850 Jacket for ice climbing and winter mountaineering.

Affordable? No
Super warm, packable, tough and comfy? Definitely
Denali's worth? pretty sure it's not

You may have to revise your expectations, or your budget

Kevin Mokracek wrote:

I have the OR super alpine.   It’s a very warm jacket, I only use it as a belay jacket and an around camp jacket in the winter.   I like it because it’s long, it covers your back and half way down yer butt, I like that because when you sit in a camp chair it covers your lower back well instead of riding up, provides great insulation.   Don’t expect to wear it climbing, way to big and bulky but it’s a perfect belay jacket.  

I have the same and also like it. Oversized hood to go over everything easy. Zipper on top and bottom to allow room for the belay loop. Oversized pockets are easy to use. It’s a good product for the price and keeps me warm. 

I don't think you're likely to do substantially better than what you've got for $200-$300. And realistically a Denali worthy parka is never going to be tiny no matter how much you spend. 

My personal qualms with those jackets are they aren't long enough to cover my butt (I'm 6'2" though) and the multilayer/membrane shell isn't breathable. But you could do much worse. If they fit you well I'd just have a tailor put a 2 way zip on the XV for a few bucks and call it a day. You'll have a pretty good quiver for kinda cold days and arctic days. 

jdejace wrote:

I don't think you're likely to do substantially better than what you've got for $200-$300. And realistically a Denali worthy parka is never going to be tiny no matter how much you spend. 

My personal qualms with those jackets are they aren't long enough to cover my butt (I'm 6'2" though) and the multilayer/membrane shell isn't breathable. But you could do much worse. If they fit you well I'd just have a tailor put a 2 way zip on the XV for a few bucks and call it a day. You'll have a pretty good quiver for kinda cold days and arctic days. 

Have you tried an XL in the OR Super Alpine?  I'm 5'11" and wear a large and it's pretty long, in fact its one of the common complaints of the Super Alpine from some that its too long.   I would think an XL for you might be good.

I meant the Nilas and XV which OP already has. Sorry for being unclear.

I would strongly recommend looking at the new Arc Teryx Nuclei SV. It's a little higher than your price range but at a retail price of $400 it is a ridiculously good deal, and today I'm seeing it for $300 at many sites which is a freaking steal for a jacket this good.

https://www.rei.com/product/192513/arcteryx-nuclei-sv-insulated-parka-mens

While on the subject of price, I would suggest if you use a price range of $200-300 for such an important piece of kit, you'll likely spend over $1,000 on several pieces over a few years and still not be stoked on any of them.

I don't think that a "well packable belay parka for around 200-300 that can keep me toasty at 0° and still warm enough to be happy at the summit of day Aconcagua or Denali" exists. Any Denali or 6000-7000m down parka is going to be bulky. Belaying or being immobile at zero fahrenheit tends to get cold fast (or does for me). Single digits or colder I typically use the Peak XV or old Patagonia Fitzroy (basically the same as the XV but with double zipper and drop pockets) but I just plan around the bulk of this type of parka. The Patagonia Grade VII is a fancier construction but supposedly similarly as warm or warmer. In the end there's no secret science; more fill is needed for more warmth and while the face fabric and fill power can impact how packable it is, this only affects things to a degree and not an order of magnitude. Also, nothing in these categories tends to be $200-300 except maybe the Peak XV on sale. The top belay parkas are 3-4x that.

I would use both your down jackets and really find out what you like before trying something else. Those are both nice jackets. If you are ice climbing/cragging having a bulky jacket isn't a big deal.

I just went through trying a few different jackets for exactly the same reason and although it was perfect for me, the Big Agnes Fire Tower Belay. It was extremely warm walking the dog slowly at 5° in the morning and comes with its own stuff sack. Beautiful and comfy jacket. On sale at REI’s outlet for $350 minus 25% with a membership until 11/29.Fire Tower Down Belay Parka

I strongly recommend you read this - he's tried all of them!

https://coldthistle.blogspot.com/2012/12/the-belay-jacket-tutorial.html

Thank you all for the feedback. I should clarify I returned the peak XV and  purchased the nilas. But it’s sounding like that wasn’t the move I should’ve made since the nilas won’t get me up a 6000-7000m peak?

The reason I’m looking for the versatility is due to pack ability without breaking the bank on about a $1k jacket like the Arc Ceres SV or a MH absolute Zero parka. Ideally it’ll be packable enough so that I can pack into a 75-100L bag when doing these objectives. Which I’ve found with the nilas so far but that seems to be only a summer alpine season only for Denali from the reviews I’ve read.

I guess i will still keep an eye for the golden goose if it even exists lol and or increase the budget to pay for the performance. 

If you're serious about climbing 6-7k peaks you are going to break the bank regardless. 

I reviewed some of the belay parkas I have used on my blog, here:

http://larsonweb.com/blog/?p=1913

It might be helpful as you compare various options.  

I personally have not found a single belay jacket that is ideal for every condition.  Jackets for super cold conditions are simply not going to be ultra light and packable.  

Ray Lovpal wrote:

Thank you all for the feedback. I should clarify I returned the peak XV and  purchased the nilas. 

Something tells me you won't be very happy with the Nilas.  They downgraded from 850-fill power to 800 a year or two ago, and now, the Nilas only comes with 220 grams of 800-fill down. I bought an 850-fill Nilas five years or so ago, and returned it as I found, for northeastern ice belays, it wasn't warm enough for me.  Some love this jacket, but, for me, it wasn't warm enough. 

With a climbing helmet on, the Nilas' hood sucks, too, to put it easy.  It's cut very small for a helmet-compatible hood, with minimal down fill = not very warm. Trying to save money is fine, but, in my experience, the two worst places to be cheap are your belay jacket and climbing boots. 

The Nilas is an overpriced belay jacket that had good intentions when Steck was a part of the design, but, after ten years or so of service, there are much better options out there.  I would seriously consider spending the cash on a Grade VII, Montane Alpine 850, the Mountain Equipment K7 Jacket or the Mountain Equipment Exo Jacket, even though I'm not a big fan of down belay jackets with a waterproof membrane; I tried one on and it's very impressive.  The North Face's new AMK L6 Parka appears to be a contender in this market, but without knowing the down fill weight, it's hard to gauge.  

Why manufacturers don't list down fill weight in their down jackets really pisses me off.  How are we supposed to gauge warmth without knowing how much insulation is used in its construction?! Patagonia, Arc'teryx, TNF, Mountain Hardwear, etc. are all guilty of this.  There's no reason why we have to email customer service to find this information. Which usually takes them a week to figure out as no one ever seems to know, or where to find the answer.  Rab, Mountain Equipment, Feathered Friends all list down fill weights on their websites, as they should.

Arc's new Alpha Parka, size large, can be had at 25% off right now.

The OR Super Alpine is an okay jacket. It is cut long and has good butt coverage which is great and is pretty durable. However, it only has around 6.5oz of down fill and isn’t box baffled. It’s also very heavy and bulky for the amount of warmth it provides. For a similar price and less weight, you can get a warmer jacket from Montbell, Rab, or others. 

Kai Larson wrote:

I reviewed some of the belay parkas I have used on my blog, here:

http://larsonweb.com/blog/?p=1913

It might be helpful as you compare various options.  

I personally have not found a single belay jacket that is ideal for every condition.  Jackets for super cold conditions are simply not going to be ultra light and packable.  

Another great resource (the blog) to learn about gear beyond what the maker's marketers would have you believe.

Himali is Boulder/Nepali owned and has a great parka called the Altitude. Pretty classic 6k parka. 

Ray Lovpal wrote:

But it’s sounding like that wasn’t the move I should’ve made since the nilas won’t get me up a 6000-7000m peak?

Ray,

There are many different 6-7k m peaks in the world; depending on what you are planning on climbing, the gear requirements will vary a lot.  The Nilas will be plenty of jacket to get you up just about any 6,000m peak in Central or South America, for example.  I have been to 6,000m in the Andes in Peru with a MH Phantom, which is less warm than the Nilas.  The same jacket has been plenty warm ice climbing and mountaineering all over the lower 48.

The reason I’m looking for the versatility is due to pack ability without breaking the bank on about a $1k jacket like the Arc Ceres SV or a MH absolute Zero parka.

You do not need to spend $1000 on a down jacket.  Worry about it when you start looking at climbing Denali or some higher Himalayan peaks.

Buy your jackets used.

If it’s not 50% or more off retail, it’s not worth buying. There’s a million other people willing to pay full pop only to realize they don’t need actually need the items. Take advantage of those people. Everything depreciates once the tags are off/it’s out of the store, if they’re asking too much, let them hold on to the item and they’ll see it’s only worth what someone is willing to pay. 

Ted Raven wrote:

Buy your jackets used.

If it’s not 50% or more off retail, it’s not worth buying. There’s a million other people willing to pay full pop only to realize they don’t need actually need the items. Take advantage of those people. Everything depreciates once the tags are off/it’s out of the store, if they’re asking too much, let them hold on to the item and they’ll see it’s only worth what someone is willing to pay. 

Second this, plus you're keeping forever-plastics out of landfills and down on gooses. Some people just end up with too much stuff, get sponsored items, etc.