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katahdin knife edge trail Maine in winter time

Original Post
Adrian Borowiec · · New Britain CT · Joined Sep 2021 · Points: 0

Hi everyone 

I'm looking for any advice about knife edge trail but in winter time.

dave custer · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2010 · Points: 2,903

The notch between Pamola and Baxter presents difficulties that are highly dependent on conditions, climbing experience, and equipment. Otherwise, it is an above-treelike, winter hike in New England. Pick your day; if the weather isn't perfect, pick another objective.

jdejace · · New England · Joined Sep 2013 · Points: 5

Do you have any specific questions? 

Are you aware of the approach? Park roads are closed in winter. 

Marc801 C · · Sandy, Utah · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 65
Adrian Borowiec wrote:

Hi everyone 

I'm looking for any advice about knife edge trail but in winter time.

So that we don't duplicate info, what research have you done so far and what have you learned?

Here's some discussion: https://www.summitpost.org/phpBB3/katahdin-knife-edge-in-winter-t56182.html

Other info: 

https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/111416484/katahdin-winter-ascent

https://baxterstatepark.org/winter-basics/

M M · · Maine · Joined Oct 2020 · Points: 2
Marc801 C wrote:

So that we don't duplicate info, what research have you done so far and what have you learned?

Here's some discussion: https://www.summitpost.org/phpBB3/katahdin-knife-edge-in-winter-t56182.html

Other info: 

https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/111416484/katahdin-winter-ascent

https://baxterstatepark.org/winter-basics/

You're like a teacher who does the students homework for them while scolding them for not doing it.

Marc801 C · · Sandy, Utah · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 65
M M wrote:

You're like a teacher who does the students homework for them while scolding them for not doing it.

Just a quick search - which doesn't really answer the nebulous question - and I was kinda interested in the topic* anyway. I also didn't want to be snarky without adding anything positive.

*: It holds some memories. I did the traverse of Katahdin - Abol trail > Baxter Peak > Knife Edge > Pamola > Roaring Brook - the August when I was 17 and a total noob. Did it solo. My parents dropped me off then drove over to the RB trailhead to wait....a lot longer than any of us thought. I/we had no idea what I was getting into. I also had basically no emergency gear, extra food, clothing, etc. Had things gone sideways I'd likely have been a statistic.

Steve McGee · · Sandpoint, ID · Joined Aug 2021 · Points: 795

Couldn't you pretend that you're Scottish if the weather gets bad?

Anyway, I took a look at some of the links and it seems awesome. I'm in Idaho and want to try a similar route this winter.

Adrian Borowiec · · New Britain CT · Joined Sep 2021 · Points: 0
jdejace wrote:

Do you have any specific questions? 

Are you aware of the approach? Park roads are closed in winter. 

 Actually I think about easiest trail for first time. I have winter hiking equipment (crampons, ice axes etc.) I don't want to do ice climbing.

My experience is based on carpathian mountains in Poland, Slovakia, and Hungary. In the USA I was only few times on mt. Washington in the middle of the winter last year and I want to try something more adventure. 

Adrian Borowiec · · New Britain CT · Joined Sep 2021 · Points: 0
Steve McGee wrote:

Couldn't you pretend that you're Scottish if the weather gets bad?

Anyway, I took a look at some of the links and it seems awesome. I'm in Idaho and want to try a similar route this winter.

Hahaha I don't really know what does it mean but I know how taste beer in -26°c on the middle of the frozen lake .

Marc801 C · · Sandy, Utah · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 65
Adrian Borowiec wrote:

 Actually I think about easiest trail for first time. I have winter hiking equipment (crampons, ice axes etc.) I don't want to do ice climbing.

You realize that it’s 8 miles from the park entrance to the trailhead on an unplowed road, yes? You’re not doing that plus climbing the peak then back to your car in one day.
Also, the easiest trail means you do the knife edge twice. 

Steve McGee · · Sandpoint, ID · Joined Aug 2021 · Points: 795
Adrian Borowiec wrote:

Hahaha I don't really know what does it mean but I know how taste beer in -26°c on the middle of the frozen lake .

It means this:

An example in NH

jdejace · · New England · Joined Sep 2013 · Points: 5

I think on the whole the most reasonable strategy would be to spend a couple of nights at Chimney Pond and attempt the Saddle trail to the summit. From there you can go down the same way or do the knifes edge if it's nice out. 

The advantage over the Hunt trail is you're less likely to be alone on that side and the ranger can keep an eye out for you. 

You need to plan a fair bit ahead for permits and reservations, access isn't a free for all like New Hampshire. You might not be able to get a spot in the bunkhouse at this point, reservations opened a couple of weeks ago. But you can call the park and ask what's available. There will always be room to sleep outside but you still have to reserve a lean-to a week or so in advance. 

The approach to Chimney Pond is 13 miles on snow. Most people do it in 2 days and spend a night at Roaring Brook. Cross country skis and sleds are the preferred method. It would be a long walk. Some people use a fat bike when the conditions are good but don't count on it. 

It would be an adventure :-)

Adrian Borowiec · · New Britain CT · Joined Sep 2021 · Points: 0
jdejace wrote:

I think on the whole the most reasonable strategy would be to spend a couple of nights at Chimney Pond and attempt the Saddle trail to the summit. From there you can go down the same way or do the knifes edge if it's nice out. 

The advantage over the Hunt trail is you're less likely to be alone on that side and the ranger can keep an eye out for you. 

You need to plan a fair bit ahead for permits and reservations, access isn't a free for all like New Hampshire. You might not be able to get a spot in the bunkhouse at this point, reservations opened a couple of weeks ago. But you can call the park and ask what's available. There will always be room to sleep outside but you still have to reserve a lean-to a week or so in advance. 

The approach to Chimney Pond is 13 miles on snow. Most people do it in 2 days and spend a night at Roaring Brook. Cross country skis and sleds are the preferred method. It would be a long walk. Some people use a fat bike when the conditions are good but don't count on it. 

It would be an adventure :-)

You are right it is big adventure 

Probably I will wait for next year and get more experience.

Unfortunately I don't have experience in backcountry skiing.

Definitely I move this trip.

Adrian Borowiec · · New Britain CT · Joined Sep 2021 · Points: 0
Marc801 C wrote:

You realize that it’s 8 miles from the park entrance to the trailhead on an unplowed road, yes? You’re not doing that plus climbing the peak then back to your car in one day.
Also, the easiest trail means you do the knife edge twice. 

I will take this info. Like advice. 

Thanks 

Nick Goldsmith · · NEK · Joined Aug 2009 · Points: 460

Edge..   For some Reason I did not find the tram to get us to the  café for croissants??  where did I go wrong?   Isa asked directions in French, Italian, Deutsch and Swiss Deutsch but  nobody seemed to understand and we never did find the tram down.   A lot of rocks on the descent, really battered my knees. 

Forrest Carver · · Edgecomb, ME · Joined Jul 2014 · Points: 150

I'd be interested in trying this objective again this year, and/or possibly the Chimney, if anyone wants to join forces. We tried a couple years ago via Cathedral-KE-Dudley. It was sunny and calm until we hit the second cathedral when the winds became gale force and visibility all but disappeared in a matter of minutes. We tagged the summit (could barely find it in the conditions) and descended the way we came. It's a good thing we weren't on KE at the time, not sure what we would have done.

I think I heard only one party climbed KE that year and they were pretty next-level, having done it in a single push with the approach and deproach on skate skis, which seems hard to believe as the approach alone was grueling and took us all day*. Maybe they did it in one push from Roaring Brook, that would make more sense.

Anyway let me know if you're interested in splitting the bunkhouse, I am trying to pull together a party for late Feb early March

*we brought fatbikes and the conditions deteriorated a short way in so we wound up xc skiing with the fatbikes as deadweight which sucked. I could see a fatbike approach being a cinch if the conditions were just right. Better hope they're just right on the deproach, too...

Nick Goldsmith · · NEK · Joined Aug 2009 · Points: 460

Nordic skis are by far the fastest way to travel over snow if its not too steep for fish scales or skateing.      I was completly blown away by how much easier  it was than skinning when I changed my approach set up a few years ago..    Smugglers notch the skate skiers fly by like a freight train...  

M M · · Maine · Joined Oct 2020 · Points: 2
Nick Goldsmith wrote:

Nordic skis are by far the fastest way to travel over snow if its not too steep for fish scales or skateing.      I was completly blown away by how much easier  it was than skinning when I changed my approach set up a few years ago..    Smugglers notch the skate skiers fly by like a freight train...  

More weight helps the scales stick on the way up and usually helps the slide on the way down as you probably know. I used to have friends that brought  backcountry skis for long approaches and they always showed up late wherever they were going.

Nick Goldsmith · · NEK · Joined Aug 2009 · Points: 460

 I used to get blisters on my heels and all kinds of nonsense. I now have a really light pair of  fish scales with metal edges and crappy army surplus cable bindings that fit my climbing boots. I can't ski anything technical with them but they are great for aproaches to climbs.   If i need a bit more help on the uphills I use kick wax.   I have heard of folks pulling their sleds in and out of Kahtadin with nordic skies and bringing their camping and telle /AT gear in that way. I have also heard of folks going in on day 1 to stash gear and then skateing back out with no packs to stay in a hotel. then skate back in in the morning again with no or very light packs to ski or climb. repete for  several days. apparently the last day is a bitch...  Obviously that takes a great level of fittness and skill but those guys do absolutly fly on skate skis. Friend of mine tried the fat tire thing last winter or perhaps the winter before and got spanked with conditions.. I suppose skate skis are also condition dependent  but if you are fluent with skate and kick and glide and on a university ski team you will make short work of it one way or another... .... 

M M · · Maine · Joined Oct 2020 · Points: 2
Nick Goldsmith wrote:

 I used to get blisters on my heels and all kinds of nonsense. I now have a really light pair of  fish scales with metal edges and crappy army surplus cable bindings that fit my climbing boots. I can't ski anything technical with them but they are great for aproaches to climbs.   If i need a bit more help on the uphills I use kick wax.   I have heard of folks pulling their sleds in and out of Kahtadin with nordic skies and bringing their camping and telle /AT gear in that way. I have also heard of folks going in on day 1 to stash gear and then skateing back out with no packs to stay in a hotel. then skate back in in the morning again with no or very light packs to ski or climb. repete for  several days. apparently the last day is a bitch...  Obviously that takes a great level of fittness and skill but those guys do absolutly fly on skate skis. Friend of mine tried the fat tire thing last winter or perhaps the winter before and got spanked with conditions.. I suppose skate skis are also condition dependent  but if you are fluent with skate and kick and glide and on a university ski team you will make short work of it one way or another... .... 

KISS is always my go to but being prepared at the trailheads is another story!

Marc801 C · · Sandy, Utah · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 65
Nick Goldsmith wrote:

Friend of mine tried the fat tire thing last winter or perhaps the winter before and got spanked with conditions.

People who own fat bikes think they can do anything at any time. It's not true!

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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