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Ice Climbing in Semi-Automatic Crampons

Original Post
Clayton Shaw · · Utah · Joined Mar 2017 · Points: 10

I’m currently shopping around for my first pair of mountaineering boots. Right now I’m looking more at boots without a toe-welt because of the low weight and cost. However, I’d also like to do some ice climbing and I’m wondering if this type of boot will do the job. What is your experience (if any) climbing vertical ice in semi-auto crampons, and would you recommend that system to a beginning ice climber?

Linnaeus · · ID · Joined Aug 2011 · Points: 0

The semi-auto part doesn't matter, plenty of people climb ice with a hybrid crampon. However, the softer boots without a toe welt don't climb ice as well and that can be your limiting factor with this set up.

Noodle Dude · · Vanifesting Destiny · Joined Nov 2021 · Points: 0

B3 or full shank boots have the toe welt because the entire sole is rigid, reducing calf pump, and thus allowing the use of fully auto crampons because they can’t flex and pop the crampon off.

B2, or 3/4 shank boots without toe welts have a little bit of flex in the toe which allows them to climb rock and hike trails better, but reduces their comfort for ice and when kicking steps in snow. Also this means they must be used with semi auto crampons because a full auto wouldn't stay on. They also tend to be less insulated.

If you are only ice, snow, and mixed climbing, get a full shank boot. If you plan to be doing more low angle glacier walks to summer alpine rock climbs, get the 3/4 shank boots.


I have climbed a lot of ice in both, and while its possible in 3/4 shank, its much more fun in a full shank. 

Fabien M · · Cannes · Joined Dec 2019 · Points: 5

In terms of crampons if you want an all in one I would go with the Petzl Lynx

DeLa Cruce · · SWEDEN · Joined Nov 2018 · Points: 0

I wouldn’t recommend the Petzl Lynx in today’s market. Too heavy for what it offers. The only cool thing about it is it comes with both types of toe bails. The Petzl dart is far lighter and the semi auto toe bail can be bought (it’s not expensive) so you can use them with different boots. It doesn’t make sense to get a light boot and then put a heavy crampon on it. That being said, stiff boots make a world of difference for ice climbing and I would only use non full shank boots if ice climbing was a “seldom” activity. A good compromise is something like a LS Nepal Cube or Scarpa Mont Blanc Pro. 

Fabien M · · Cannes · Joined Dec 2019 · Points: 5
DeLa Cruce wrote:

I wouldn’t recommend the Petzl Lynx in today’s market. Too heavy for what it offers. The only cool thing about it is it comes with both types of toe bails. The Petzl dart is far lighter and the semi auto toe bail can be bought (it’s not expensive) so you can use them with different boots. It doesn’t make sense to get a light boot and then put a heavy crampon on it. That being said, stiff boots make a world of difference for ice climbing and I would only use non full shank boots if ice climbing was a “seldom” activity. A good compromise is something like a LS Nepal Cube or Scarpa Mont Blanc Pro. 

You re right of course, I recommend the lynx as an all around crampon. Better, specialized crampons exist.  

Greg Miller · · Westminster, CO · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 30

One thing to keep in mind is boot and hybrid crampon compatibility - I tried ice climbing with my Petzl lynx in hybrid mode in a pair of LS Trango something or others, which had a very narrow toebox, and about halfway up the first pitch when I kicked the toe of the boot shifted up and through the gap in the hybrid front, so it contacted at the same time as the front point - basically, make sure there's no way your boot will fit through that space.

As far as first pair of mountaineering boots, I've been very happy with LS Nepal Evos, just a good all-around boot.

Zach L · · Northern Vermont · Joined Oct 2012 · Points: 10

I just picked up a new pair of Scarpa Phantom Techs. I have been climbing in the older orange and black phantom guides for several seasons now. I remember when I got them they were a game changer in terms of warmth and weight, and precision. They are still in great shape (check my posts - I am selling them, size 44...) The Tech's are insane - less bulk and weight, warmer, more precise. it is amazing what modern single boots can do. These phantom techs feel like summer alpine boots in weight and sleekness, yet they are full shank and warmer than the phantom guides. 


My 2 cents is if you are serious about ice climbing, get a fully rigid modern single boot. They will do pretty damn near anything including mountaineering type stuff 9 months out of the year... then you can pick up a super light summer boot for the other 3-4 months of the year...

DeLa Cruce · · SWEDEN · Joined Nov 2018 · Points: 0
Fabien M wrote:

You re right of course, I recommend the lynx as an all around crampons. Better, specialized crampons exist.  

I guess what I am saying is I would recommend the dart in the same space. When I think of “all around”, I’m thinking of a horizontal point crampon like a vasak or g12 or sabretooth. But for anything in the next category, i just don’t see a case where the lynx is a better choice. Even if you want to use a “too technical” crampon on easier stuff, the dart is still better. 

Fabien M · · Cannes · Joined Dec 2019 · Points: 5
DeLa Cruce wrote:

I guess what I am saying is I would recommend the dart in the same space. When I think of “all around”, I’m thinking of a horizontal point crampon like a vasak or g12 or sabretooth. But for anything in the next category, i just don’t see a case where the lynx is a better choice. Even if you want to use a “too technical” crampon on easier stuff, the dart is still better. 

Yes but you can use the Lynx with semi-automatic compatible crampons (OP question) without modification. Also, heavy is good for training :)
Not especially advocating for the Lynx here, I do have it and yes they are on the heavy side but still think they have their use.
Dart is indeed a better choice if your boots are compatible with it.

rocknice2 · · Montreal, QC · Joined Nov 2006 · Points: 3,847
Fabien M wrote:

Yes but you can use the Lynx with semi-automatic compatible crampons (OP question) without modification. Also, heavy is good for training :)
Not especially advocating for the Lynx here, I do have it and yes they are on the heavy side but still think they have their use.
Dart is indeed a better choice if your boots are compatible with it.

If you didn't have heavy crampons would you still buy a pair?

OP if you're thinking about ice climbing you need a full shank boot to do anything above easy. Semi auto poons work on ice but the fit must be perfect.

Fabien M · · Cannes · Joined Dec 2019 · Points: 5
rocknice2 wrote:

If you didn't have heavy crampons would you still buy a pair?

I own 4 pairs (all petzl, 2 vasak, 1 Lynx and 1 Dart) and I think they all have a place.
I use the Lynx for ice cragging, freeride skiing but also sometimes for multipitch mixed climb.
It's also a pair I can easily lend to others.

Noodle Dude · · Vanifesting Destiny · Joined Nov 2021 · Points: 0

I choose the Lynx over the Darts as a better all-arounder because I spend a ton of time on WA glaciers and the extra point under the ball of the foot on the lynx is awesome for long low angle ice slogging in terms of stability and traction.
It is a noticeable difference. So I’d say it all depends on where and what your objectives are when comparing the lynx to the dart.


and OP def be careful with 3/4 boots and your crampon toe baskets, esp Petzl’s..kicking through the toe basket and covering your front points with your boot sole can be terrifying in the wrong spot.

Charles Iguana · · Boston, MA · Joined Nov 2020 · Points: 80

Hey OP and DLC.

Just weighed my son's Darts and my "too heavy" Lynxs.  Similar setup on both, with monopoint and automatic toe bail. The weight difference for the pair was 4 ounce, or ~110 grams.

Sorry, but the sausage mcmuffin I downed before my climb weighed me down a lot more than the addl 4 ounces of my crampons LOL. 

J C · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2015 · Points: 477
Charles Iguana wrote:

Hey OP and DLC.

Just weighed my son's Darts and my "too heavy" Lynxs.  Similar setup on both, with monopoint and automatic toe bail. The weight difference for the pair was 4 ounce, or ~110 grams.

Sorry, but the sausage mcmuffin I downed before my climb weighed me down a lot more than the addl 4 ounces of my crampons LOL. 

110 grams on a long enough lever will move the world. Steve House switched to semi autos for the weight savings, which is probably a lot less than Darts vs Lynx.

DeLa Cruce · · SWEDEN · Joined Nov 2018 · Points: 0
J C wrote:

110 grams on a long enough lever will move the world. Steve House switched to semi autos for the weight savings, which is probably a lot less than Darts vs Lynx.

Light is right

Nick Goldsmith · · NEK · Joined Aug 2009 · Points: 460

it can work just fine. heck  Isa had an issue with her heel a few years ago  that kept her out of her ice boots for a season. we tried several things including borrowing a bigger boot for her bad foot.   part of the journey she wore her XC ski boots with aluminum  mountaineering  crampons. here she is leading  Smuggs grade 3 in alpina XC boots and ultra light aluminum rigs. this  this should please the light it right crowd. 

 and following a multi pitch  4+ at lake Willoughby in the same set up

  Highly not recommended but it worked. I suspect that 3/4 shank boots  with real steel crampons will work just fine ;)
Ryan Eames · · Edmonds, WA · Joined Mar 2021 · Points: 0

Anyone use Sarkens for ice?

ryan Smith · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2017 · Points: 15
Ryan Eames wrote:

Anyone use Sarkens for ice?

I have, they work pretty well, low angle ice and alpine stuff, where there is a mix of snow and ice they are great. Not what i would choose for steep water ice though.

Nick Goldsmith · · NEK · Joined Aug 2009 · Points: 460

I led the Black dike In Sarkens they got recalled and I switched to something else but can't remember what?  

Ryan Eames · · Edmonds, WA · Joined Mar 2021 · Points: 0
ryan Smith wrote:

I have, they work pretty well, low angle ice and alpine stuff, where there is a mix of snow and ice they are great. Not what i would choose for steep water ice though.

Snagged a pair last year for my first season of ice climbing. Havent used them yet but plan on  using them in a couple weeks!

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Ice Climbing
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