Climbing Training in a Fitness Gym

Hello Mountain Project!

I just started a membership at a fitness gym (Vasa Fitness, if you're familiar). I don't have time/funds to get a membership at a climbing gym, so I'm making the most of what I've got... I plan to go to the gym Monday, Wednesday, Friday from 6am-7am. (with a 5-month old baby at home my time is pretty limited) I do have a hang-board at home that I can use to supplement days I'm not able to go to the gym.

I am wanting to train to be stronger at longer-day/endurance climbing... for reference, I plan to climb NIAD next year (April/May), though I also have some lofty rope solo goals that consist of all-day climbing... Right now I'm climbing 5.10a-b's fairly confidently on lead, but I get tired pretty quick. I'm looking for a general training program to increase strength a bit (I'd love to feel confident on easier 5.11's), but mainly focused on endurance (I'd love to not be totally winded and wiped out after a short hike to the base of a climb... lol!)

Do any of you have a fairly structured training program that you find has helped you increase in these areas? Any and all advise would be greatly appreciated! 

First off, gym training is not an ideal situation. If you have a hangboard at home you probably don't need to waste time in the gym. It would be moire effective to hang a rope in a tree (balcony, staircase, etc) and jug laps with weight. Combine that with hangboarding, pullups on the hangboard, and variations of that and you have a much more specific training stimulus than anything at a globo gym (especially for NIAD which is easy aid, jugging, and straightforward cracks). 

Second thing, consider your weaknesses and train those. When you "get tired" are you running out of energy, muscles unable to contract, muscle cramps, hunger, thirst, grip strength gone... what is limiting you? Train that.

Some ideas for how to address weaknesses (please don't do all of these at once, that would be dumb)...

Max strength (MS)... Do individual moves on 5.10 feel hard? Do a LOW rep, HIGH weight, LOTS of rest between for weak movements or grips. This feels insufficient at the time but pays huge dividends and actually boosts muscular endurance as it gives you more motor units to cycle through on sub-max effort. Training for the New Alpinism gives good info on this but you will want to tailor it to your goals/needs. Two days/week.

Muscular endurance (ME)... if MS is something you crush at then consider muscular training that pushes you to exhaustion, this is the opposite of MS, HIGH reps, LOWer weight, LITTLE rest. Go to exhaustion. Ideally you would do this on rock, but again, jugging in a tree with weight is specific and has crossover to actual climbing too. Find the weight/rest combo that allows you to completely fatigue yourself in the time you have. One to 2 days/week.

Fat adaptation... Are you bonking (Sugar crash)? Consider making a diet adjustment to higher fat intake. Do easy endurance sessions before you eat anything in the morning (jugging, ARC sim on the hangboard, jogging will even help despite not being specific). This will stress your body to rely on fats for energy more (no, it won't make you fat, you'll just go longer with less food). 

Efficiency... sounds like you're SOL on this one but if you are not efficient with your energy use on 5.10 hand cracks, jugging, aiding, hauling, etc. then you need to spend a lot of time doing it. There is no way around that one. Sorry. 

Aerobic conditioning... probably not a huge factor on NIAD, but if this is a big weak area for you, then some sort of aerobic training will help a lot. Key here is to do it consistently, one day/week won't help at all. Bare minimum would be 3 days/week but if this is a weak area and you actually want to build capacity I'd do 6 days/week (obvs you're still doing other things so double days). Specificity isn't NECESSARILY important, though ideally you'd do some rowing or ARCing since that will crossover more. Biking while standing (no seat), running, hiking, ski touring, etc are all good stimulus. Work up to doing 45-60 min of continuous, easy effort each session. You can do this before breakfast as suggested above to help with fat adaptation too. 

Final thought... its easy to fall into doing whatever is easy for you (esp with a baby). Continue to seek out those things that are difficult for you and spend your time working on them. It will often feel frustrating but will yield the biggest results in the end. Good luck and good for you for setting big goals. I have a 5 mont old too and its tough to get after it!

Thanks so much for the info Sam! I was not anticipating anyone to spend the time to type out such a great response! I'm definitely using these suggestions to put together a program/plan to help me! I will have to find someplace to hang my rope up for hugging practice. And I'll start working on a better hang-boarding plan. 

As far as endurance goes, I'll probably use the gym for cardio on stairs or treadmill or something of the sort. It isn't "climbing specific" but it'll help to get my heart thumping a bit. I'll also probably alternate and do weighted pullups and forearm/bicep curls to increase ability specifically in crack climbing. 

Some ideas, 

I've had some decent results from the workouts on Crimpd. I know it's available in the google app store at least. It's 100% free. And it's put out by Lattice Training.

I like to use their bouldering focused workouts because that's what I have easy access to. Depending on your resources and time it might work. 

NIAD in 4 months is a big goal at your level. I don’t think you will be ready without on-the-wall training focusing on endurance and efficiency. I would find a way to get to the climbing gym to hone technique.

I would agree with you Brendan, that it's a large goal for someone at my climbing level to attempt the NIAD, though the plan is to climb the route with two others, one of whom has done the NIAD about 20 times. For reference, we plan to climb in 3 blocks, each taking a turn to lead, the other two jugging like there's no tomorrow (I will be setting up a rope to practice jugging regularly throughout winter). We aim to test our skills on moonlight buttress at the beginning April to decide if we're ready. 

To be fair, I may have sold myself a bit short in my original post in an attempt to keep my head from filling with air... Though I can only lead 5.10a-b's, I'm quite fit. I'm 5'10" and 135lbs. Mountain biking over the last season has helped a ton with cardio endurance and I've done quite a few 'all-day' climbs including flyboys and squawstruck, both clean, and both a handful of times, as well as a few others. 

The intent of my question was really to inquire as to how to best keep my strength up through the winter, to be ready for a big goal at the start of the season. All of the replies so far have been very helpful in my journey, thank you all!! 

Tanner Dayley wrote:

I would agree with you Brendan, that it's a large goal for someone at my climbing level to attempt the NIAD, though the plan is to climb the route with two others, one of whom has done the NIAD about 20 times. For reference, we plan to climb in 3 blocks, each taking a turn to lead, the other two jugging like there's no tomorrow (I will be setting up a rope to practice jugging regularly throughout winter). We aim to test our skills on moonlight buttress at the beginning April to decide if we're ready. 

To be fair, I may have sold myself a bit short in my original post in an attempt to keep my head from filling with air... Though I can only lead 5.10a-b's, I'm quite fit. I'm 5'10" and 135lbs. Mountain biking over the last season has helped a ton with cardio endurance and I've done quite a few 'all-day' climbs including flyboys and squawstruck, both clean, and both a handful of times, as well as a few others. 

The intent of my question was really to inquire as to how to best keep my strength up through the winter, to be ready for a big goal at the start of the season. All of the replies so far have been very helpful in my journey, thank you all!! 

Please do not aid climb Moonlight. There are plenty of other big walls to hone your aid shenanigans.

Tanner Dayley wrote:

.. Though I can only lead 5.10a-b's, I'm quite fit. I'm 5'10" and 135lbs.

Alright, I'll be that jerk. You a skinny boi. Are you eating enough?

Do you have the funds and space to build a home wall?  I have children and can say a home wall is a must.

Another home option is to build a foot on campus set up. If you want more enduro, you need to put in the work to raise your base (aka aerobic capacity) as well as your power enduro (aka anaerobic capacity). Both can be done with a foot on campus set up. 

Can’t do home set up, find a friend with a home wall. Donate some holds or just make up boulders. That’s fair compensation in my book. 

rock climbing wrote:“Training is easy-gratification porn” Will Gadd

what do you think he means by this?

Let this man shine!

 Bro, I believe in dad power. You send your naid and your kid will be proud of you. More importantly you’ll be proud of you and so will the mp forum!!! Bust your ass and go get it. My kids have inspired me to be way better at everything and try new shit. Do you trs? That’s the most bang for your buck for climbing mileage with a kid. Or just take that baby to the crag!! 

Do you know which article? I still can’t quite figure out what he could’ve meant 

It's this one, 

https://www.climbing.com/skills/how-to-effectively-train-for-climbing/

Interesting article.

"Like masturbation, “training” offers controlled results without the stress of real world variables. Training is easy-gratification porn: predictable, sanitized, but does not equal actual performance. Really climbing harder is, well, way harder. This is probably why so many people fall into the training trap: Hanging a 6mm edge for the goal of two seconds longer is a hell of a lot more rewarding than failing to onsight at your limit, failing to summit a dream alpine route, or failing to send the project you really, really care about."

"...somehow the jargon of the educated “trainer” has taken over climbing: Periodization, lactate threshold, recovery, etc. These are useful concepts at some point, but most climbers are so far from even climbing regularly (and with intention) that such advanced tactics are totally irrelevant. It feels great to lift a heavier weight for longer; it’s a lot harder to quantify a new highpoint on your project or feeling more confident on bad feet, so we convince ourselves that irrelevant improvement is somehow meaningful. If all you have are hammers then the world is full of nails, but hammering nails won’t make you climb harder"

Not to be a jerk, but Will Gadd has worked out in a gym - and has said that he finds working out at a gym beneficial in other articles he's written, including on his own blog, 

https://willgadd.com/ten-training-tips-for-lifelong-athletes/

The fist point, 

1. Commit to being an athlete. This means moving at whatever level you can, regularly.

That's excellent advice. Not all of us are career athletes with lucrative sports drink sponsorships. Maybe training at the gym is all there is on a Monday between meetings, and I think Will would agree that that's better than f'n nothing. 

I think Outside just runs a lot of divisive articles these days in the hopes to get the click rate and subscription numbers up, because they're in f'n trouble. There was an article posted on Outside about how your local gym rating system is stupid because it's not using YDS - real important topic. These types of articles make Andrew Bisharat's navel gazing wanderings seem like Pulitzer material.  This makes Chris's rants on climbing after it rains in Indian Creek make me want to see it written up as a scientific article in Nature.

Here's another Will Gadd article that doesn't use "masturbation" as a metaphor for something negative, which is in itself a fairly puritanical idea meant to belittle the reader - which personally: I don't want someone try to embarrass me in an attempt to have me agree with their point of view,

https://www.explore-mag.com/Gadds_Truth_Five_Fitness_Commandments_to_Live_By

The first truth about working out is that, in the long-term, it doesn’t matter what you do to work out.

The second truth is that individual workouts don’t matter much, but regularity does.

and on and on. I think this article also gives a great perspective. 

What they aren't is some curmudgeon passing judgement over people he sees without getting into the why they are doing the thing they're doing. Maybe I missed the, "mockery" tag.

Yeah, based on the quote alone,  I thought it would be a slam on training.  So then, I looked up the quote and actually found the 10 commandments article.  That seemed to be in direct contradiction to what the quote meant on the surface! Glad someone else was seeing this too.

Don’t get me wrong, I get where he’s coming from based on the longer excerpt.  Sometimes, training or not, one has to make it happen.

Thanks for sharing the article and contents.  But, back to the thread, send the nose man, that would be rad! My girlfriend wants to have kids and i oscillate between wanting to run away from all responsibility and thinking it will magically work itself out. If you can do it, that would be another person showing that it’s possible to climb hard and live a more balanced life with a family. Maybe it just takes a little more masturbating on my hang board.  Metaphorically of course.