Knee pads vs hand jammies

I’ve been thinking a lot about my bias and hypocritical thoughts lately regarding sticky rubber and curious to hear what the scholars around here think as well.

For the interest of this thread, I’m not interested in defending any beliefs I lay out, as I’ll own they’re flawed and I’m just being honest rather than preaching.

Now- I don’t necessarily voice it, but I look down upon the jammies. Part of me thinks they’re soft, and the only logical argument I’ve heard against them is they can encourage poor technique.

I fully embrace the knee bar pads, and while I’ll acknowledge a difference in grade If a knee bar makes a route easier, or take off a style point if the FA didn’t use one, I’m all about them, and throw rubber on my thigh whenever I can.

Am I alone in this hypocrisy?
discuss. 

I have little to add, other than that I stand with you in your beliefs. 

Do you avoid tape gloves, too? If you find the back of your hands getting cut and scraped, wear gloves. If you're OK with the cuts and scrapes, don't wear them. Seems like a simple decision.

You don't care what other people think of you wearing crack gloves, do you?

FrankPS wrote:

Do you avoid tape gloves, too? If you find the back of your hands getting cut and scraped, wear gloves. If you're OK with the cuts and scrapes, don't wear them. Seems like a simple decision.

You don't care what other people think of you wearing crack gloves, do you?

I don't wear gloves, but mostly because I don't climb as well with them. I think jammies make more sense than gloves cause it's less wasteful, but agree they're nearly the same thing.

I guess I would tape up if I went to the creek for a week, just so I could climb a little more? More likely that I would just bring extra superglue though.

edit to answer your question:  Yes, I would carry great shame if I was seen wearing jammies by any respected peers.

In the Voo I wear jammies. In the creek I use nothing. Jammies certainly tone down the rock, but they do introduce a pump factor that would otherwise not be there. I love the feeling of skin on rock and opt for that over any type of glove when I feel it is appropriate.

A recent development I have seen with jammies is the hand shoe. I felt weird about it at first but then realized there is nothing wrong with it as long as we are honest about how the send went down.

A good hand shoe pic can be seen here https://www.mountainproject.com/photo/121237041/mary-working-through-the-crux 

There is no cheating in climbing, only lying.

I dunno, they both seem like aid to me. 

If you feel triggered or defensive, re-read. I said 'to me'. I am not trying to state a fact you must argue with.

While we are on the topic, what about knee pads in OW? I didn’t use them for years but recent started and it changed the game at the Voo for me. Instead of being beat down after 1-2 days I could climb comfortably for many days. 

Cory N wrote:

There is no cheating in climbing, only lying.

Came to say the only requirement in climbing is the truth. 

I wear jammies unless it's super easy, I have scarred hands that open up easily, inflicted mostly through other activities. 

Hand jammies used to be clunky and promoted poor technique. They also hindered more than helped on thin, offhand sized cracks, fist cracks and pretty much anywhere a bit of sensitivity might be needed. Tape was light years better for just about everything. That was the old jammies. The newer designs these days are far better. Thin, sensitive and comfortable. Almost as good as tape… almost. That being said, I don’t wear them and prefer my calluses any day. 

One cares about that kind of thing only if one needs to compare themselves to others. “Your ascent doesn’t equal my ascent, therefore….”

Maybe, back in the day when an ascent was somehow moving the sport forward, it mattered, but very, very, very few ascents these days qualify. You want to wear jammies or a knee pad? Who am I to define your ascent? Who am I to define the personal quality of your ascent?

Mark Hudon wrote:

One cares about that kind of thing only if one needs to compare themselves to others. “Your ascent doesn’t equal my ascent, therefore….”

Maybe, back in the day when an ascent was somehow moving the sport forward, it mattered, but very, very, very few ascents these days qualify. You want to wear jammies or a knee pad? Who am I to define your ascent? Who am I to define the personal quality of your ascent?

Good to hear from ya Mark, 

I think what I'm really asking is how people feel about their individual ascents, personally.

I don't outwardly judge others for their chosen style/tactics, but for an example: I sent a 5.xxD last week, but found a knee bar in the middle before the redpoint crux. It was shitty, but the pad made it considerably better, and I think effected the difficulty of the route. I felt good about taking 5.xxC, but would have felt dishonest claiming an ascent of the guidebook grade. I'm quite confident the FA did not use the kneebar, therefor I need to be honest with myself about what I really achieved that day.

Maybe that clarifies where I'm coming from a bit

I’m old and decrepit although the skin on the backs of my hands is tough as nails (in contrast to the rest of my body where I have old guy tissue paper thin skin) so I rarely need jammies. If I’m doing something like the NIAD, I’d use them so I can be less critical with my jams.

As far as knee pads go, again, old and decrepit, I don’t want to hurt!

I know the level of my ascent and I’m happy with it, I have nothing to prove to anyone.  

I don't see the comparison: hand jammies are light & easy on/off, a kneepad is much bulkier & even a strap-on may require bare skin contact for the thing to stay put. I won't even get into duct tape/glue, etc. I've begrudginly used both, but climbing is better enjoyed in simpler forms, IMO.

Does anybody else get nerve damage from not using tape/gloves? The backs of my hands have lost a significant amount of sensitivity from crack climbing. I’m not willing to sacrifice more in pursuit of purity. Tape me up, Scotty. 

I have scars on my quads from not wearing knee bar pads. Getting 12 stitches is bad for your climbing.

I recently picked up the BD offwidth suit, how many letter grades will this take off in the Voo?

almostrad wrote:

I guess I would tape up if I went to the creek for a week, just so I could climb a little more? More likely that I would just bring extra superglue though.

edit to answer your question:  Yes, I would carry great shame if I was seen wearing jammies by any respected peers.

The creek is so gentle on the hands. Granite cracks are where the cuts come in.

Jammies make hand cracks fun!  That's all I need.  Also, older thinner skin likes them, too

I don't really care either way about jammies or knee pads. I've never used pads, as I haven't climbed hard enough to need them. Nothing wrong in pros using them, if someone says otherwise they can go repeat the climbs without them.

For jammies I equate them to tape gloves. Those make climbing more fun on sharp granite. Also I consider using them better manners than bleeding all over the rock.

I like crack gloves. I don’t think they encourage poor technique, in fact, I’d say they help improve technique because you can get more climbing in without dealing with gobies and cuts. Once you have more laps under your belt, you’ll wear them less on easier stuff.

I don’t really understand the knee bar pads to be honest. I don’t really climb my OW, or boulders/sport routes where they’d be at all helpful.

People should do what they want.