BD tools

So, I'm thinking of joining the 21st century, finally. I've always climbed with straight shaft tools. I currently have straight shaft carbon fiber Black Prophets. Prior to those, my first tools were Grivel Super Courmoyers. 

I have a lot of BD Aermet picks, which are super durable and theoretically should work with Cobras, which is what I'm leaning toward. Also considering the BD Reactor. Has anyone tried both and able to give an opinion? Any other tools to consider?

I don't climb with BD tools, so I won't comment on Cobra vs. Reactor vs. whatever. But those Aermets? They are thick by today's pure ice standards. If I were you I'd find some suck... I mean BD True Believer (tm) who will buy them for $60-80 apiece and use the cash to buy some picks with really thin points. nb. This assumes you are climbing pure ice routes.

Both great tools. I'd say the break even point at wi4 where either will work well. Cobras a better choice for easier and Reactor better for harder ice. Not that you can't climb hard with Cobras, it's definitely been done. The Reactors is just easier to hang on to when it gets steep.

If I remember correctly the Aermet pick were the Alpine or Alaska pick. Tough as shit but thick and displaced a ton of ice. I could be wrong. The new thinner pick will be easier to stick but the Aermet should be awesome on mixted terrain.

I have a set of those black prophets. Great tools at the time. Still use them from time to time in the moderate alpine. I moved ahead slightly years ago with the first generation Cobras. I still use them as my go to tools for both steep ice and alpine. In fact I have two sets - about to sell one of them. What I like about the first generation Cobras is being able to use them on alpine climbs where one needs to plunge the shaft. One can not do that with the Reactors and can kind of sorta do that with the current Cobras. Even though you have Aermet picks I would not be too set on BD tools as those picks will sell easily.

As for your specific question, I can not answer as I have liked the Petzl Nomics for leashes tools.

I would like to buy a set of those pics.  DM me if your willing to sell.  Thanks!

As far as the answer, get a tool with an offset handle for modern water ice climbing, I.e. the Reactors. 

I have climbed extensively with Cobras for some years now. Finally bit the bullet and got some Reactors last ice season. Terrific tools, much more suited to steep ice than Cobras. As someone mentioned, much easier to hang onto on steep stuff, which helps with the pump. Narrow, slender picks which give lots of first swing and stable placements. I have used many different tools and think that the Reactors are up there with the best, including Nomics, which they most resemble.

What’s the main difference between the fuel and reactor? Only swung them in the store but definitely felt a difference. I was leaning more towards reactors but can’t quite remember why. Any thoughts?

The Reactors are a copy of the X-Dreams [another great tool].
At this point we are splitting hairs as to which is better Reactors, X-Dreams, Nomics or Tech Machine. Everyone has a preference though and they do have slight differences. Again we are comparing high end, Lambos, Ferrari, Porche and get the picture.

Difference between a Fuel and Reactor is what you'll be climbing most.
Fuels are stiff, like really stiff. Great on mixted routes OK on ice. Even with the more open pick they are just OK. 
Reactors have an open pick angle and swing more naturally. They are not as stiff and will suffer somewhat because of that. But you can still scratch rock with them.

I used the Carbon Fiber Black Prophets before I got the Vipers. I love BD tools and the Viper will work well on WI4 or WI5 and also on M5 or so. The Viper is a good basic tool, but it can be used by good climbers too. Leashless, the weight and balance of the tool, and the larger grip are important to me with the Viper. I will buy another pair of them soon. Some people have smaller hands so that will change what tool feels good to you.

I know BD tools get a lot of shit on here, and I am no expert, but after climbing on all the main tools out there, I own Fuels and vipers, and would only get ergonomics (absolute fav) if I weren’t a cheapskate. The fuels are stiff, and I like that. vipers are also stiff. Both are solid tools that can take a beating. I personally like having a. very steep/acute angle between shaft and blade, as opposed to “more open”. reactors might be more versatile, as you can add/remove hammer as needed. But it’s all personal preference, as they say. I’m a big fan though, even though the vipers don’t get much press, they are solid tools

rocknice2 wrote:

The Reactors are a copy of the X-Dreams [another great tool].
At this point we are splitting hairs as to which is better Reactors, X-Dreams, Nomics or Tech Machine. Everyone has a preference though and they do have slight differences. Again we are comparing high end, Lambos, Ferrari, Porche and get the picture.

Difference between a Fuel and Reactor is what you'll be climbing most.
Fuels are stiff, like really stiff. Great on mixted routes OK on ice. Even with the more open pick they are just OK.
Reactors have an open pick angle and swing more naturally. They are not as stiff and will suffer somewhat because of that. But you can still scratch rock with them.

I wouldn’t say the Reactor is a copy of the X Dream certainly there’s an influence but the Reactor has a more open grip (I can’t even fit my hand in an X Dream) plus the Reactor has a hydro formed shaft. People tend to take a shit on BD tools but both the Fusion 1 & 2 were very dominant tools in their day both in terms of podium finishes on the comp scene (ICWC, Ouray) and for establishing hard mixed lines. I’m thinking about getting a set of of Reactors this season to augment my Drytool collection (Anchar and ASPEED) for stock picks the BD picks perform well on ice plus the myriad of after market blades permit endless customization. As with cars, who drives stock anyway?

At this point, I'm sure the problem is me, but FWIW I can't stand BD tools after trying nearly everything they make the past 10 years. They're solidly built, but the balance forever sucks (again, IMO). Currently have Fuels, Reactors in the mostly-unused gear pile because I'm worthless at ice climbing with them. For TR stuff, I can get up it with the Reactors, but on lead I have no confidence in them. Nomics have been my go-to for years now - I can swing them straight and get sticks fairly easily in a wide variety of media.

CDub wrote:

At this point, I'm sure the problem is me, but FWIW I can't stand BD tools after trying nearly everything they make the past 10 years. They're solidly built, but the balance forever sucks (again, IMO). Currently have Fuels, Reactors in the mostly-unused gear pile because I'm worthless at ice climbing with them. For TR stuff, I can get up it with the Reactors, but on lead I have no confidence in them. Nomics have been my go-to for years now - I can swing them straight and get sticks fairly easily in a wide variety of media.

Never swung reactors, but Fuels are my main go to at the moment…yet, I know what you mean. I feel like they hook really well, better than Nomics, because they are stiff. They just do not flex, at least under my body weight…but balance/swing-feel isnt as optimized as Nomics. But by nomics, I mean the previous generation. I don’t like the handle/feel of the current one, sadly. 

DeLa Cruce wrote:

Never swung reactors, but Fuels are my main go to at the moment…yet, I know what you mean. I feel like they hook really well, better than Nomics, because they are stiff. They just do not flex, at least under my body weight…but balance/swing-feel isnt as optimized as Nomics. But by nomics, I mean the previous generation. I don’t like the handle/feel of the current one, sadly. 

Yeah, BD has some great manufacturing techniques - the hydroformed shafts are sweet. The new Nomics also have similar construction which cuts down on flex. But something about BD needing to make certain parts of the tool ultra-durable makes them overweight in some areas, which gives them shit balance. I feel like the engineers spent too much emphasis on geometry and durability (TBF, these are important), and balance was just an afterthought. And sure, they hook great!

I don't have a strong opinion on old Nomics vs. new Nomics. I have a pair of each, and both work for me.